Talk:Slavery in the Ottoman Empire

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 January 2019 and 18 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MelissaDerrick. Peer reviewers: MelissaDerrick.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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The article is a bit misleading and exaggerated.

Slavery was common in the Ottoman empire, but a few things are not very clear in the article.

1 The Kapikulu were in reality captured prisoners of war or christian children who were enrolled in as Janissaries, but these were not ordinary slaves who worked in households, in the farms or industry, no they were military slaves. In fact they were not really slaves, but they were considered to be the servants and soldiers of the Sultan. They lived in barracks got monthly paid and could rise to important ranks. They were elite soldiers, and the normal population saw them ofcourse not as slaves, but in the end they always had to obey the Sultan, which was officially their masters, but in reality these Jannisaries also many times revolted against their master the Sultan. For increase of their payments, or they also intervened in the Ottoman politics. They became a state in the state and made many revolts against the Sultans who tried to reform them, they were also so powerfull they actually killed Sultan Osman II, Selim III and were finally destroyed by Sultan Mahmud II after they had tried to kill him too.

2 And about the numbers of Janissaries, they numbered between the 14th-15th centuries some 6.000 and most of them lived probably at least an average 20 years, they were elite soldiers, and had to complete years of training and they were never mend to be used as cannon fodder. So actually there were not non stop christian children taken from their parents to become jannisary, no in reality it was very insignificant when it is remembered that the Ottomans ruled over at least 5 million christians in the same time.

3 Between the 15th-16th centuries the average number of janissaries was 12.000 an increase because the empire expanded, but when taken into consideration of the average life time of a janissary and the 6-7 million christian population this is not a big number.

And not all of these Janissaries were actually children taken by the devshirme it included prisoners of war, and there many wars in those ages.

4 The jannisaries got many new priviliges in the end of the 16th century such as they were allowed to marry and their children had the right to become janissary, before this it was all forbidden. Finally when the Ottomans needed more soldiers in the end of the 16th centuries they allowed free born muslims and christians to enter the janissary corps, because they had a lack of manpower, after 1600 the taking of boys from christian families had practically stopped. Most of the Jannisarries then were actually sons of Janisarries and new recruits of freeborn muslim and christians.

So when there are 40,000 Janissaries in 1650, 90% of them are sons of Janissaries or new members, not persons taken as children. And in later centuries almost all of them.

5 The total number of Janissaries by Devshirme I estimate between 1370- and 1620 = 250 years. (Average life after being taken to become a Janissary I estimate as 20 years)

                                                                                   (average recruits in 1 year)
Between 1370-1430 = 60 years, average 3,000 Janissary, 60/20 = 3    3 x 3,000   = 9,000         (150)
Between 1430-1480 = 50 years, average 8,000 Janissary, 50/20 = 2,5  2,5 x 8,000 = 20,000        (300)
Between 1480-1520 = 40 years, average 12,000 Janissary, 40/20 = 2   2 x 12,000  = 24,000        (500)
Between 1520-1580 = 60 years, average 18,000 Janissary, 60/20 = 3   3 x 18,000  = 54,000        (750)
Between 1580-1620* = 40 years, average 12,000 Janissary, 40/20 = 2   2 x 12,000 = 24,000        (500)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total number of Janissaries between 1370-1620 (250 years)                      131,000          (524)
 
*excluding Janissaries from non Devshirme origin.

DragonTiger23 (talk) 11:36, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bare Assertions and Lies

A member of the Ottoman slave class, called a kul in Turkish, could achieve high status. Harem guards and janissaries are some of the better known positions a slave could hold, but slaves were actually at the forefront of Ottoman politics. The majority of officials in the Ottoman government were bought slaves, raised free, and integral to the success of the Ottomans from the fourteenth century to the nineteenth. By raising and specially training slaves as officials, they created administrators with intricate knowledge of government and fanatic loyalty, and cut corruption. As an administrator with no ties in the region, he would not favor one person over another when granting contracts.

There is no evidence of this at all; sounds like Ottoman fabrications. Anyone in the mood to delete this? -- Secondat of Orange (talk) 20:23, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One more month and I'm going to remove this. -- Secondat of Orange (talk) 16:15, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Cambridge World History of Slavery: The ancient Mediterranean world ISBN 9780521840668 pages 28-44 is a source that can be used to improve this. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That book was amazing, thank you. -- Secondat of Orange (talk) 17:51, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of referenced information

User:Yozer has seen fit to remove referenced information under the guise of "Removed non-relevant content".[1] I reverted asking, "explain how a group of individuals sold as slaves are irrelevant in an article titled "Slavery in the Ottoman Empire",[2] instead of an answer Yozer quickly tries to make it personal stating, "Thanks for your bias Kansas Bear".[3] I see nothing productive in Yozer's statement nor an explanation for the removal of references and referenced information. Such information will be restored. Continued remarks aimed at an editor and not content will be reported. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:32, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Turkish lies everywehre

In the section "Zanj Slaves" someone wrote: "Today, tens of thousands of Afro Turks, the descendants of the Zanj slaves in the Ottoman Empire, continue to live in modern Turkey."

There is no evidence and no source for this claim. the Afro-Turk activist Mustafa Olpak speaks about the racism towards Blacks in the Turkey, that still exist today. In 2006, Olpak founded the first officially recognised organisation of Afro-Turks, the Africans' Culture and Solidarity Society (Afrikalılar Kültür ve Dayanışma Derneği) in Ayvalık. Here is a German source where he predicts that only 2000 Africans still live in Turkey: http://www.swr.de/blog/tuerkei/2010/01/05/die-schwarzen-sklaven-der-osmanen/

The Turkish racism toward blacks forces many of them to marry white women, to whiten their skin colour. Almost all African mercenaries and all other black slaves in the Ottoman empire were castrated, so they could not produce children. The Women in Turkish harems had abortions, to not produce mixed childrens, thats why today there are almost no blacks left in Turkey. Source Tidiane N'Diaye.

I will therefore remove the disputed claim and add the numbers of Olpak in the article

False references

This article claims that "Slave boys were captured from the African Great Lakes region and other areas in Sudan like Darfur and Kordofan then sold to customers in Egypt.", and proceeds to provide two references for that claim. A look at the referenced books and pages shows no such information, however. The page clearly needs a proper rewrite from someone that knows what they are talking about. 114.134.3.152 (talk) 01:03, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Circassian?

This article mentions Circassian slaves under the heading of Sexual Slavery, but passes over the Slavs who were the mainstay of the Crimean slave market for 800 years. Along with the mention of Roxelana on this page, there's a lot of good source material that is cited on the page for Tatar slave raids in East Slavic lands https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Tatar_slave_raids_in_East_Slavic_lands catseyes (talk) 14:50, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Anachronism

"customs statistics suggest that Istanbul's additional slave import from the Black Sea may have totaled around 2.5 million from 1450 to 1700."

The Ottoman Empire did not control Constantinople until 1453. Are we counting the slave imports of the Byzantine Empire as well, in this statistic? Dimadick (talk) 07:00, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Three whole years out of 350? Really, that's your argument? 2A00:23C5:679F:A201:9542:6CAC:975B:7DAA (talk) 17:06, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cariye

Cariye seems to be a subset of this article. There is currently a merger discussion Talk:Cariye#Proposed merger of Jarya into Cariye but I wonder if its better to merge it with this one instead? VR _talk 04:38, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think perhaps not - primarily because the Ottoman empire was also awash with male slaves and eunuchs. Cariye should almost certainly be mentioned on this page, if not as the title of the title of the female slavery section than as a major term or sub-section, but I don't see there are being much to be gained from merging the content. Jarya/Cariye is useful to split out both as an etymological term and practice. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:44, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I also have no objection to having different articles.Ghazaalch (talk) 09:33, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Women and Gender in the Middle East

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 August 2022 and 14 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Allpuri9001! (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by EmPatch (talk) 03:31, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]