Talk:Sirhan Sirhan

Still in prison

The intro states, "Sirhan was convicted of murder and was serving a life sentence". He still is, he hasn't been released yet. And it's not certain he will. The governor has the final say.

Lenbrazil (talk) 01:54, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Addition for hypnosis

While it may stink of a conspiracy theory, I think there should be a segment on the argument that people have that Sirhan Sirhan was a catspaw, and had been hypnotized into performing the assassination. Considering JFK has a portion on his conspiracy theories, so long as the referenecs are added (most of which I think I have squirrled away somewhere), I'd like to write a portion on RFK's —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.64.2.76 (talk) 17:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I concur, especially in light of the CIA MK Ultra and similar programs. The coincidence of both Kennedys being murdered also deserves mention especially in light of indications of LBJ's and CIA involvement in the murder of JFK. And conspiracy is not a dirty word. Evil men has just tried to make you ashamed of using the word so they can do their deeds without question. There have been enough conspiracies that have been exposed and generally accepted by even the most obtuse that there is no merit to categorical denial of the mere concept of political conspiracy, especially in USA. But I fear there is a significant crowd of mindless idiots who fear anything that requires thought and will delete any mention of conspiracy with any amount of desperate justification. 85.83.19.103 (talk) 21:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

For goodness sake, there is no logic in proposing 'hypnosis' as being relevant to this case. You may as well say 'Diana's Driver was hypnotized' 'Martin Luther was hypnotized to break up the catholic church' 'Saddam was hypnotized to attack Kuwait', and so on and so on. Unless there is some supporting evidence, and there is none, then such talk of hypnotism is just idle and petty. There is also not one shred of credible evidence that LBJ or the CIA had any 'involvement' at all in JFKs tragic murder. Johnwrd (talk) 15:35, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Yet, isn't hypnosis considered a valid explanation in both the Jonestown Massacre and Patricia Hearst's involvement with the SLA?.

The Rosicrucians do not hypnotise people. Nor is it an "occult organization". He may have shown signs of hypnosis, but there could be no connection.Royalcourtier (talk) 05:26, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

More support for hypnosis

On the page for MKUltra it mentions the assassination of JFK and how Sirhans first attorney made arguments pertaining to the CIA's mind control program.

Also, Sirhan was evalutated and did in fact show signs of some form of psychosis or altered state of mind. This would also fit in with the fact that he later chose to recant his confession, saying he did not remember anything from the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.198.102 (talk) 15:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Hypno-Illusionist Derren Brown's Assassin

On 21st October 2011, Channel Four aired a show in which Derren Brown, a notable British magician/hypnotist, successfully programs a member of the public to "assassinate" Stephen Fry, with total amnesia of the event afterwards. Throughout the program, Derren draws parallels to Sirhan Sirhan's assassination of Robert Kennedy, and heavily implies that he was programmed in a similar way by the CIA. I feel that this should at least be mentioned in this article. 95.152.216.203 (talk) 21:41, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

No it should not as there is no relevance other than his name being mentioned. I'm deleting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.104.25 (talk) 23:31, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand the reasoning for deleting this. If the program mentions parallels to Sirhan Sirhan why can't the facts speak for themselves? Here's what was removed:

===Derren Brown: The Assassin===

On 21 October 2011 at 9 pm Channel 4 showed a programme by Derren Brown who staged an assassination attempt with a subject prepared by hypnotism. The programme recreated the stimulus that Sirhan Sirhan reported having, and Derren Brown's subject afterwards initially reported that he had no memory that he had fired a gun at someone, in this case Stephen Fry, at a public event, and after Brown suggested confronted him, the subject reported, like Sirhan Sirhan, that he had felt as if he had been merely in the shooting range where he was originally programmed to shoot upon receiving a certain discrete stimulus. Brown also managed to hypnotise the subject into dousing a stranger in what he thought was hydrochloric acid. Raquel Baranow (talk) 18:08, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Hypno ++

I moved the "More support for hypnosis" and "Derren Brown's Assassin" chapters up here to help consolidate. (I don't usually reorganize talk pages and I haven't read not to yet.)

There's an article for Assassination of John F. Kennedy in popular culture so it's relevant to mention Derren Brown's Assassin episode available on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90xfZJQzAhc).

Sirhan Sirhan may or may not have been a subject of MK Ultra but worth mentioning because, suspect in the conspiracy, the CIA and their program may have developed applicable tools of manipulation.

In RFK Must Die they stated that Sirhan Sirhan had brain damage from an accident, which makes some people more susceptible to manipulation by hypnosis, and as it turned out he was very hypnotizable.

By default, he would have no motive as a zombie puppet, which is worth mentioning. RFK stated that if president he would reopen his brother's case. "They" wouldn't allow that = motive.

It might be worth associating suspicious aspects of the Aurora shooting and the irregular James Holmes who may also be under some kind of mind manipulation. (ie. YouTube: "Brainwashed neuroscientist James Holmes - Aurora shooting" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHc1L1Rcpag )

The Enyart Film mentioned on Talk:Robert F. Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories should also be included here.

JasonCarswell (talk) 22:26, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

References

When was the first instance of a claim that he was hypnotized? -Reticuli 2605:A000:1301:A37F:88A7:38EF:AC2C:6FCD (talk) 23:19, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Not sure (this article suggests at least 1994), but it's pretty much the only defence Sirhan's lawyers have, since he was apprehended at the scene with a gun in his hand. I haven't seen anyone provide a shred of credible evidence that he was brainwashed by the CIA. The only thing I could find was that he "was fascinated with the idea of mind control." (https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/6/5/palestine-sirhan-sirhan-and-robert-f-kennedys-assassination) Psychologist Daniel P. Brown claimed in a 2011 affadavit that Sirhan was "hypno-programmed", but a judge stated that “Brown’s retrospective opinion based upon tests assessing [Sirhan’s] mental condition forty years after the fact are of negligible weight.” Alan Scheflin argues that the CIA was able to successfully brainwash people, but a classified 1966 US military study cited on Wiki concluded "that there was no evidence that hypnosis could be used for military applications" and "that there are no reliable accounts of its effective use by an intelligence service in history". (https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Hypnosis) Doesn't sound very effective to me. According to Mel Ayton, "The evidence presented during the 1969 trial revealed how Sirhan was fully aware of everything around him on the night he killed Robert Kennedy and that no credible evidence has ever been discovered that would indicate Sirhan’s actions were the product of a hypnotized mind.” He said Sirhan’s previous knowledge of hypnosis enabled him to construct a story that featured convenient memory loss about the shooting and his notebooks." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/06/04/the-assassination-of-bobby-kennedy-was-sirhan-sirhan-hypnotized-to-be-the-fall-guy/) Sirhan's Palestinian roots and Kennedy's avowed support for Israel seem a far more likely motive to me.

Citing a TV magician is also not evidence of anything other than supposition (incidentally, I don't think that Youtube videos are a reliable source). James Holmes was a spree shooter, and while certainly mentally ill, I can find no evidence that he was brainwashed or hypnotized. Holmes was acting strangely because he's a psychopath who wanted to murder a bunch of people.

I think the connection with Sirhan is thin. 2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:5009:B077:FE76:EF65 (talk) 19:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

YO

the article has his occupation listed as "assasin". I'm pretty sure this is wrong. He murdered someone once as far as i know

You're quite right, I've removed the reference. He only killed once, and he did it for personal reasons rather than professional ones. It clearly isn't his occupation.

POV

Did my damndest to clean up the POV mess in this article... --Fluppy 11:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

An event mentioned in this article is a

SBS should never get parole, in fact he should only be allowed parole when RFK is given his life back!

Meself, I feel sorry for SBS, since he was obviously Manchurianed. According to the ballistic evidence, he killed.

Can we have sources for the ballistics claims, please? Police report? Sirhan's statements? Other? (UTC) Deputy District Attorney John Howard, who had interrogated Sirhan two hours after the crime and stayed with the case all along, opened up with this stunning testimony: “The gun was an eight-shot revolver and there were six casings inside, which indicated that there had been six bullets fireda total of eleven ) bullet holes were found to be in the walls and people Of course a single bullet can make multiple holes. The LAPD claimed to know how eight bullets did it all but then the DDA testified to six shells. Also note that coroner Noguchi refuses to say SBS killed RFK, because SBS was never close enough to leave powder burns and couldn't cause the wounds found from where he was. Somewhere there's mention that the intact slug from RFK didn't match SBS' gun and was never tested against the others in the room. Anyhow, it seems the LAPD was even worse handling RFK evidence than for OJS; check the handling of the door jamb that probably showed two more holes to account for

Oh yeah, there's Sprague, which IMO is a notch or two higher in credibility than Shannon: ‘The ballroom microphones, including ABC's, picked up the sound of only three shots above the crowd noise. Since Sirhan fired eight shots, or certainly more than three, and since Los Angeles police tests proved that Sirhan's gun could not be heard in the position of the microphones in the ballroom, the ABC film and soundtrack is important evidence of three other shots.’[1]

Evidence of additional bullets surfaced nearly immediately...an AP photo two police officers pointing at something in the center frame of the swinging doors that led into the pantry...Bugliosi identified the two officers as Sgt. Charles Wright and Sgt. Robert Rozzi were sure that what they observed was...a hole containing a bullet...[which] would have been the ninth bullet, since seven bullets had been recovered from victim wounds and the eighth was to have disappeared into the ceiling (necessary to account for acknowledged holes in the ceiling a Chicago Tribune article authored by Robert Weidrich [who] had evidently been in the pantry as the doorjamb was being removed the molding bore the scars of a crime-laboratory technician's probe as it had removed corroborating FBI evidence skipped]...There is no way to account for these holes using the existing victim wounds. Two bullet holes in the doorframe would make 10 bullets overall at a minimum...[Patrusky statement skipped]&rsquo

What's with that first external link given in this article, to the Pat Shannan site? The article is rather shoddy (I thought at first it had been penned by a non-native speaker fairly skilled in the language but not in our culture, since it refers to the "FIB (Federal Investigation Bureau)" and more than a couple of the connections are bordering on the ridiculous (George Wallace was stealing votes from Republicans and could've thrown the '72 election into the House? not to mention that the entire thing seems to beg the question on the assassination's very nation, namely in that it assumes there must have been a conspiracy and then sets out to prove it. Can anyone double-check this for me and agree/disagree on the article? If it really is that crappy, we should drop the link.

---

This page is insane. Not only does it give no creedence to the fact that Sirhan Sirhan may have ACTUALLY killed Bobby Kennedy, it also ended by telling people that he had escaped and run amok in Israel. Much to the chagrin of whoever was stupid enough to write that, other people in the world have the name Sirhan Sirhan. Now, here comes my problem. While I may not be a complete believer in the claim that he did kill Bobby Kennedy, could we please put some information as to why anyone would suspect such an innocent man of such a thing? I myself am having problems as the entire internet appears to be against the idea wholeheartedly. Alright. The page was better, but now it's been demolished again by conspiracy goons. Does anyone else notice that the page starts with an emphatic statment that Sirhan Sirhan killed Kennedy but then gives all evidence to the contrary? I've had a hard time finding material, so again I call out to you beautiful people to help fix this page.--TheGrza 04:44, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

Why is the word "unconstitutional" put in quotes in the text? The quotes should be dropped, IMHO, unless someone can come up with a very good reason to keep them.

I am a kid no older then 10 and I want to know whet truely happened at that shoot out? I want to be in the law when I get older so if someone could really tell I would print it out on my computer and share it with a class or teacher. User: Congress Woman

I take it the Shannan link is the one that was just removed. For those who may be thinking of restoring it, the site it linked to no longer exists. Jobu 12:59, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

There are questions as to whether the sounds ABC picked up were in fact gunshots (https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/36915). "In his 2013/2015 report Magistrate Judge Wistrich stated that the evidence did indeed show that Sirhan had been able to position his gun near to RFK’s head, leaving powder burn marks on the senator’s body. In his adjudication he stated that Sirhan and his attorneys failed, “to address the chaos that ensued once (Sirhan) began shooting and the subsequent movements of the senator and (Sirhan) in reaction to the shooting. Establishing that (Sirhan) was initially in front of Senator Kennedy does not preclude him from firing the fatal shot”." (https://www.crimemagazine.com/robert-kennedy-assassination-%E2%80%93-final-truth) Sirhan's lawyers claim their client was brainwashed, but that's a defence theory, nothing more.2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:31AB:CB79:3F03:60D (talk) 21:04, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Request for expansion

If you wish to make a request for expansion, please note it on the requests for expansion page or at least give an indication here on the talk page of what you feel needs elaboration. Palmiro | Talk 22:31, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi! Some areas that need work include: reference to "the 'RFK must die' diary entries" before any mention of a diary, the reference to hypnosis without a source (it's an unusual claim without much legal weight), and the only offsite reference is to http://www.crimelibrary.com which seems to play up conspiracy theories.

some idiot vandalized this page so im reverting it back to an older page that from a quick glance seems to be fine

Thank you for your alertness. gidonb 21:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Parole Granted

Sirhan Sirhan is getting parole, after his death penalty was commuted years ago. He is another Middle-East nut who needed to never show up in the United States.

He's not getting parole, it was denied. Although he's getting parole HEARINGS, it is unlikely he'll ever be paroled.

wrong lawyer listed

Attempts of Sirhan's lawyer, Lawrence Teeter

Teeter was not his lawyer for the first trial. Teeter became his lawyer while he was in prison, many years after the trial

If only one book is listed as the source for this article, perhaps this article should more rightly be considered a review for that book.

I plan to add info and fix some of this to this article

Wmb1957 21:14, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

http://texts.cdlib.org/view;jsessionid=DMYavKpnhk5l6OMd?docId=tf387002h3&chunk.id=c02-1.3.4.6.3 http://www.geocities.com/verisimus101/rfk/autopsy.htm Dr. Thomas Noguchi: July 28, 1971.

LA County Coroner. Noguchi describes RFK's wounds and concludes that muzzle distance of gun likely one inch from RFK's right ear. Says assailant was not face to face. http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~dlewis/photo.htm

http://www-cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/analysis/back.time/9606/10/ An interesting related article TIME, June 14, 1968

The family, which had Jordanian nationality, qualified nonetheless for expense-free passage to the U.S. under a limited refugee-admission program sponsored by the United Nations Relief and Welfare Agency and the World Council of Churches. Soon after reaching the U.S. in January 1957, the parents separated. The father returned to Jordan, settled alone in his ancestral village of Taiyiba and became prosperous enough from his olive groves to revisit the U.S. twice. His five sons and their mother Mary all live now in the Los Angeles area.

Wmb1957 03:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

If his true lawyers at the time of his first trial are a point of interest, some of the most prominent were Emile Zola Berman, Russell E. Parsons, and Dr. Bernard L. Diamond. CheshiresMasquerade (talk) 22:52, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

urls

portion of taped lie detector test taped interview - Sandy Serrano - witness - campaign worker http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/serrano.html

has comments and transcript of the above interview http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/assassins/kennedy/6.html

scan of actual LAPD teletype that announced arrest of Sirhan Sirhan http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/SIRHAN.gif

Draft of autopsy report http://www.thesmokinggun.com/coroner/rfkaut1.html

incorrect statement

In the 1990's, Sirhan would propose the theory that he had been brainwashed, which some conspiracy theorists attribute to the CIA's MK-Ultra program.

This url mentions hypnois in regard to his original request at this 1969 trial.

http://openweb.tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/1969-3/1969-03-24-NBC-12.html

Abstract :Los Angeles, California) Sirhan remembers nothing between pouring coffee for girl and being choked, after killing. Dr. Bernard Diamond hypnotized Sirhan. Sirhan had 4 drinks, took gun to hotel, walked through alcove and saw Senator Robert F. Kennedy's entourage come in kitchen. During trance acted out shooting. Diamond feels tale true. Defense says Sirhan acted under hypnotic trance induced by mirrors in hotel alcove. REPORTER: Jack Perkins Artist: Gene Widhoff

Wmb1957 13:03, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Terrorist demands

In several plane hijackings and terrorist incidents in the 1970's (and maybe early 1980s), one of the demands was the freeing of Sirhan Sirhan... this should probably be mentioned in the article. AnonMoos 14:42, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

"Conspiracy theorists"

I've removed or reworked references to conspiracy theorists because calling someone a conspiracy theorist is tantamount to declaring their views false. I hope the more neutral wording is neutral enough to keep everybody happy.

I also tried to reference the website of Lawrence Teeter, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. So I have had to use a second-hand source for his arguments. However Teeter's words as published on that website do accord with the arguments on his own site as far as I can remember them. Ireneshusband 14:40, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

According to http://www.answers.com/topic/deaths-in-july-2005 , Lawrence Teeter died on July 31, 2005. This may explain the lack of a current website. Jobu 08:43, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Sources/Further Reading

I've added the 1993 version of the Turner/Christian book as a source; I'll be adding material from it in the near future. I'd erroneously placed it in the Further Reading section at first, which is why there are several quick edits. Jobu 09:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Start again

This article needs to be restarted and locked.

Why? SanVitores (talk) 19:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Grant Cooper

The article states that Grant Cooper, Sirhan's first defense lawyer, may have been "compromised by a conflict of interest" in Sirhan's initial trial, but does not appear to verify the nature of that conflict of interest. --Delong71487 06:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

RFK Grave?

Why is Robert Kennedy's grave at Arlington being used in this article? What factual bearing does it have? And if it has any, does it outweigh the emotional bias it may garner? -- Switchfoot 01:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

• Pretty obvious: He was shot, killed and that is where he is interred. Why not have it in there? BobCubTAC (talk) 23:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

trivia?

I changed "The lead prosecutor in the case was Lynn "Buck" Compton, WWII veteran of the 101st Airborne Divisions 506th PIR, E Company, of Band of Brothers fame" to "The lead prosecutor in the case was Lynn "Buck" Compton." Can someone tell me why we should put back in the (to me) trivia about the lawyer? RJFJR 17:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

biased, unsourced

This statement was included in the personal information section:

"this Baptist connection to the extreme Republican right that forces one to wonder if he wasn't in fact a pawn for Oil interests and the Republican party's inability to escape the complexity of the self serving business minded military industrial complex that was also behind bothe World Trade Center attacks in New York via the same Op-Intel tactics."

This is unsourced and false. It should be removed. --71.192.88.79 12:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Someone does not know basic math!

> Kennedy was shot three times, with a fourth bullet passing through his jacket, and died 26 hours later. Five other persons in the pantry also were shot, but all five recovered <

This is impossible, as there isn't absolutely any nine-shooter revolver in the world as the ammo drum cannot be made large enough for that in handgun format! In fact there are only two brands of eight-shooter revolvers in .22 caliber worldwide.

RFK was killed by his own bodyguard from behind and Sirhan was just a cover-up. All independent investigations to day came to this same conclusion. 82.131.210.162 08:42, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Amazing - the unsubstantiated suggestion that RFK was "killed by his own bodyguard" passes without an nod, but the entirely possible suggestion that a single bullet can strike more than one person sparks outrage. I can always count on Wikipedia for entertainment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.64.0.252 (talk) 22:58, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

A single bullet can hit more than one person. -Atamasama 21:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Yet ANOTHER magic bullet! Two Kennedy assassinations and each had a magic bullet. Seems fishy to me. And I hear Jack Ruby and Sir Han used to vacation together off the coast of Cuba back in the late 50s. Hmmm... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.233.178.253 (talk) 19:34, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that a single bullet cannot hit more than one person? john k (talk) 15:48, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

There are a numerous 9 & 10 shot revolver models readily available but the firearm evidence presented at the trial was an 8 shot 22 caliber Ivers-Johnson Cadet model 55A. So 8 bullets (if fired until the revolver was empty) hit 6 people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.191.160.247 (talk) 12:12, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I believe the evidence is indisputable that although Sirhan might have easily killed someone that night he in fact murdered nobody and you are correct that the armed guard right behind Robert Kennedy, Thane Eugene Cesar, put two bullets into the senator, in his upper right back and then behind his right ear at point blank range leaving large powder residue showing how close the gun was. Sirhan was in front of Robert Kennedy and could not have made either shot from the rear. The police never tested Cesar's pistol, also a 22 caliber, which the killer sold three months later. The district attorney was an ignorant individual who lied about evidence, allowed an incompetent forensics firearms witness to give false evidence and refused to make corrections when clarifying information was provided that should have called for a new trial. For this reason, Sirhan was falsely convicted. SanVitores (talk) 20:15, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Of course, this is contested by Ayton. "[N]ew ballistics evidence has eliminated the possibility Cesar had fired his .38 pistol that night. And the idea that Thane Cesar had carried his .22 pistol -- Sirhan used a .22 to kill Kennedy -- and used it to shoot RFK cannot be supported by either hard evidence or logic. Thane Cesar carried a .38 pistol on the night of the assassination but he owned an H and R .22 pistol. However, accusing Cesar of having used his .22 pistol to kill RFK appears ridiculous at the outset – why would a murderer, under threat of execution if caught, hang on to the purported murder weapon for 3 months before he got rid of it? Cesar sold his H&R .22 pistol in September 1968." (https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/50532)

It seems rather risky to try to murder someone at point blank range in a room full of people with cameras and hope they just don't notice. That really would require magic. 2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:94ED:6AF6:618D:5A47 (talk) 05:42, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

There should be some short sourced reference to the conspiracy theory that someone else shot RFK.--Jack Upland 07:15, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

This was already in the article itself: http://www.nbc30.com/news/15712020/detail.html Seems pretty cut and dry to me - I don't think we'll ever really know what the true story is, so at this point "theories" are all we have. That link is kind of a shocker. 144.89.186.134 (talk) 00:59, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

For all we know Sir Han may have shot Kennedy and his bodygaurds tried to shoot Sir Han and they shot other people there are as many theroys of who killed the Kennedys.Maybe the Mafia killed Bobby to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.140.130.69 (talk) 23:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Citizenship

Is Sirhan an American citizen?--Pharos 10:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

It is pretty clear that he is a Palestinian refugee. In his testimony at the trial he described his family as refugees who were forced out by the Israelis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.123.61.184 (talk) 10:30, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Sirhan's Christian denomination

At the time of assasination, Sirhan was CLEARLY NOT a Christian or a Disciple of Christ or any type of Christianity whether is was water down or truth congregation. THE LAST THING HE DID BEFORE ACTUAL ASSASINATION IS WENT BACK TO MIDDLE EAST AND CHOSE A DIFFERENT PATH.PLEASE DO LOOK OR READ AT THIS AS A CHRISTIAN PERSON KILLING, THAT IS WHAT YAHOO AND GOOGLE AND CNN ARE REPORTING IN WHICH THAT IS NOT TRUE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.162.51 (talk) 15:50, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Sirhan was NOT raised Maronite Christian, but Greek Orthodox. His brother Munir continues to be devout Orthodox as well, and his family originally hails from Taybe, whose Christians are mainly Greek Orthodox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.187.196.151 (talk) 18:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

According to the article, Sirhan Sirhan assassinated RFK for political reasons. Why is his religion relevant? Tpkatsa (talk) 20:54, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

israel

i seem to remember reading somewhere that the assasination was a few days after kennedy suggested/asked/approved of sending modern of the time fighter planes to israel. so the assasination would go with his palestinian/arab views. anyone know? Wvfd14 (talk) 16:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

RFK had stated several times during his candidacy that he was in favor of selling 50 fighter jets to Israel, a point he restated a speech several days before the assassination and which was broadcast in the Los Angeles area at that time. CheshiresMasquerade (talk) 22:55, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Motives

There are two politically motivated entries that shed no light on Sirhan's motives:

a. I could not trace the source of Jerry Cohen's supposed article in the June 6, 1968, LA Times where he states: "the crime with which he was charged was in essence another manifestation of the centuries-old hatred between Arab and Jew". This statement makes no sense with regards to Sirhan's motives and it is not sourced - or at least not accurately sourced.

b. M.T. Mehdi's statement that Sirhan acted in "justifiable self-defense" against the Phantom sale to Israel did not come from Mehdi's book because it is not included in the quoted excerpt. It seems to have been inferred by the person who contributed that entry. Besides, whether the act is justified or not in Mehdi's mind is irrelevant to Sirhan's motives.

"Sirhan Sirhan was most certainly an arab terrorist,[citation needed] inspired by radical islam,[citation needed] hatred of America/the West/Israel,[citation needed] and believed that RFK was unfriendly to pan-Arabic objectives (restoration of the Sultanate and Sharia law throughout the Middle East).[citation needed] Some journalists[citation needed] claim that Sirhan had long dealt with anger over Israel's creation in 1948. Sirhan supposedly believed he was deliberately betrayed by Kennedy's support for Israel in the June 1967 Six-Day War,[citation needed] which had begun exactly one year before the assassination. However, the "RFK must die" diary entries started before Kennedy's support of Israel became public knowledge.[citation needed] After his arrest, these journals and diaries were discovered. Most of the entries were incoherent and repetitive, though a single entry obsessed over a desire to kill Kennedy. When confronted with this entry, Sirhan couldn't deny writing them, but rather expressed bafflement.[citation needed]"

This statement should be removed. It says he was inspired by radical islam, yet the same article states he is a christian. Plus there are no source citations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heatsketch (talk • contribs) 22:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the first sentence is total nonsense, and I've removed it. The rest (which was written by a different person) seems mostly OK, though it still does need citations.--Pharos (talk) 22:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I tore out an entire paragraph of uncited, badly written crap in the 'Prosecution' page. Come on, people. Wikipedia's a huge place - put a link in noting that there's a LOT of controversy about this and make an entire page out of it. Or better yet, use the Robert F. Kennedy Assassination page, which is what it's there for.

No one likes being beaten over the head with an idea. This is an encyclopedia. Treat it like one. Fair, neutral tone. If you can't do it, put your ideas and statements in the discussion page and let someone else write it. ExLegeLibertas (talk) 11:50, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Update on RFK's Fatal Shot / POV check

I believe this section would benefit from a POV check and have added the appropriate template. Goodnewsfortheinsane (talk) 17:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Misleading

However, a diary entry, reading "RFK must die," which was found after the assassination, was shown to have been written before Kennedy's support of Israel became public knowledge.

The Crime Library article on the assassination says that Sirhan Sirhan wrote about killing Kennedy two days before a particular documentary that talked about his support for Israel aired in LA. There is, however, absolutely no indication that his "support for Israel" was not public knowledge long before May 20, 1968, and that's a pretty absurd claim. john k (talk) 15:47, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Incredibly absurd, how is this allowed to stand? Kennedy's support for Israel was well known. Can someone please change this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.6.173.150 (talk) 22:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Philip H. Melanson's book

Would be a good source for this article. [2] I'm rather surprised to see there is no mention of the the Manchurian Candidate thesis as one of the potential motives for the killing of RFK. There is a whole body of literature on the subject, and while some may claim WP:FRINGE, I think its rather more of a significant minority opinion that desrves inclusion per WP:NPOV. Are there any objections to beginning a section on this alternate explanation for Sirhan Sirhan's actions? Tiamut^talk 22:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be more appropriate at Robert F. Kennedy assassination?  Frank  |  talk  22:05, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Well it would be appropriate there, yes. But considering that Sirhan has been convicted for the assassination and considering that the article on William Joseph Bryan mentions that a book on the assassination fingered him as the hypnotist, I can't see why we wouldn't also mention something, anything, about it here. Tiamut^talk 22:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

It's also mentioned in our article on Project MKULTRA:

Lawrence Teeter, attorney for convicted assassin Sirhan Sirhan, believed Sirhan was under the influence of hypnosis when he fired his weapon at Robert F. Kennedy in 1968. Teeter linked the CIA's MK-ULTRA program to mind control techniques that he claimed were used to control Sirhan.

Shouldn't our article our Sirhan Sirhan mention what his lawyer thought? Tiamut^talk 22:28, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Other defense lawyers for Sirhan that have Wiki articles are Melvin Belli and William Francis Pepper (the latter being his current lawyer, and both are not mentioned here). Sirhan was sent to death row at San Quentin State Prison in 1969 which is also not mentioned here. We also don't mention anything about Allard K. Lowenstein and his calls to reopen the investigation into Kennedy's assasination because of the discrepancies between the ballistic evidence and eyewitness testimonies. Nor do we mention the famous woman in the polka dot dress. Our article cannot be very complete if it fails to reference these things and the others raised above in any way at all. Perhaps that's why its still rated C-class? Tiamut^talk 22:53, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the famous woman in the polka dot dress, what kind of professional assassination team sticks around to celeberate and announce that they're murdered someone? Aren't there any sources which question that? 2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:94ED:6AF6:618D:5A47 (talk) 05:45, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

References

People v Anderson and subsequent US Supreme Court mention

It seems the people v anderson case did not decide that the death penalty violated the US 8th, but rather the similar language of the Cali constitution "cruel or unusual punishment". The article thus appears to be incorrect, if the previous is correct. Additionally, the later supreme court (US) case reinstating the death penalty didn't address these concerns at all, meerly removing the additional federal burden under the eigth. The state constitutional issue was, rather, resolved after the cali constitution was amended such that death was excluded from consideration as cruel or unusual under state law. I believe this is correct and should be changed, though the ultimate effect is the same, the specifics currently seem wrong.--24.29.232.2 (talk) 11:12, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

The specifics aren't necessary to this article at all, so I've removed them. 83.70.165.173 (talk) 21:38, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, the general outline provided seems appropriate, I find those sort of things interesting. Given it relates to the incident for which the individual is most known, it seems directly relevant. Either way, I see the language appears to be the same. I've changed it to show the cruel or unusual punishment issue in the cali const. was the issue in anderson that gave him life, and removed the blip about the US Sup Ct decision, as that wasn't shown to be relevant. Further, since the US Constitutional issues aren't necessary to the article as far as I can see, I just removed the incorrect info regarding it rather than correcting it. (the us supreme court case didn't invalidate anderson's commutation of sirhan's sentence as previously suggested as the commutation was based on issues the supreme court didn't have jurisdiction to decide, and didn't decide--24.29.232.2 (talk) 21:56, 2 January 2010 (UTC)).

Sirhan Sirhan's notebook

Proposed for deletion on wikisource http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Sirhan_Sirhan%27s_notebook parts may be appropriate for Wikipedia. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 15:50, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Early Life

In his testimony during his trial he, his mom and his brother describe being made refugees by being forced from their homes by jewish paramilitaries in 1948 in Jerusalem. In describing his life in Israel/Palestine he also recounts weekly bombings and having to pick up pieces of a man in a sheet following a bombing attack by the Israeli armed forces when he was eleven years old. He recounts how his mother would talk fondly of their old home they had been forced out of. Trial of Sirhan Bishara Sirhan I think this is very important to his early life and probably central to his motivation for his crime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.123.61.184 (talk) 04:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Also, didn't he have brain damage from an accident? Potentially making him hypno-suggestible? JasonCarswell (talk) 22:30, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

He may have. He worked at the Santa Anita racetrack. "On a foggy morning on Sept. 25, 1966, Sirhan fell from a mare named Hy-Vera, according to an article by Playboy. “Sirhan was thrown against a metal post, where he lay crumpled, crying and bleeding,” wrote James McKinley. [...] The accident had lasting health effects on Sirhan. In a podcast series created by the writers behind the popular HBO series “The Jinx,” Sirhan Sirhan’s younger brother discussed how his personality changed: “He wanted to be by himself. It’s kind of hard to put into words. He didn’t want to be bothered. He was a little more irritable,” Munir Sirhan said". (https://www.latimes.com/california/newsletter/2021-08-30/sirhan-sirhan-robert-f-kennedy-essential-california). Not sure how that helps with brainwashing though. 2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:94ED:6AF6:618D:5A47 (talk) 06:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

CTF? Are you sure?

"Prior to 1992 he had been at the Correctional Training Facility (CTF) in Soledad, California.[28][29]"

I haven't researched this myself, but are you sure you have the right facility? CTF is the minimum-security facility in Soledad. I used to work EMS there and responded there a lot. The security we went through to transport an inmate was minimal. I'm pretty sure you mean Salinas Valley State Prison, which is the Level 4 maximum security prison on the same campus. Probably should double-check that.

--Equus — Preceding unsigned comment added by Equus911 (talk • contribs) 13:38, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

This article, mirrored by this one, indicates he was in Soledad in 1977 (though the second link refers to it as a federal prison). Similarly, this article about a 1990 parole hearing is datelined Soledad, the site of the hearing. Both are well before the Salinas Valley State Prison was opened in 1996. Although these sources are less than overwhelming, it would appear that, the "federal" reference aside, the only choice for the time frame is the CTF. Fat&Happy (talk) 17:27, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

You're right, I didn't realize SVSP was that new. They must have moved the max-level inmates from CTF to SVSP after it opened, which was after Sirhan was transferred. And definitely both CTF and SVSP are state prisons, not federal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Equus911 (talk • contribs) 10:58, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Wording

Why does it say "mortally wounded" not "assassinated" in the first sentence? I feel like "assasinate" is a bit more clear, but is there a reason not to use it? – Julia (talk) 00:48, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps because RFK didn't die until the following day, and therefore wasn't "assassinated" (yet) on June 5, so it's technically a more accurate choice of words. Logically, the same would be true of Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley, Anton Cermak and Huey Long, but not of John F. Kennedy, who was truly shot and assassinated on the same specific day. However, the other articles don't seem to be consistent. WHPratt (talk) 21:24, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

LA Coroner statements

Wondered why LA Coroner Naguchi's statements that the bullet that killed Robert Kennedy definitely did NOT come from Sirhan's gun were not included in the article. Why wasn't this, and not the less provable "hypnosis theory" more important in his subsequent appeals? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.0.222.71 (talk) 07:19, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

When did Noguchi make that statement? Is it from his memoirs? 2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:7C64:3C19:881C:368D (talk) 02:53, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Lede requires reasonable qualification.

Given the extreme controversy surrounding this verdict, as well as many convincing sources (eg: Pepper) that the subject was either a decoy or brainwashed, the lede statement needs qualification. ("assassinated Sen. Robert Kennedy, though this is widely disputed", for example). The lede statement, as is, seems overly "establishment". This is not what we do, I think. Hanoi Road (talk) 22:08, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Last section on this page (titled on the page as "Future plans")

This section appears to be completely unfinished, with a lack of a complete thought, no sources, and little information offered. Not sure who originally added the section and if they had accidentally uploaded an incomplete version or some other issue but this section either needs to be completed or removed for the time being.

---

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.5.110.7 (talk • contribs) 14:38, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Age

Sirhan Bishara Sirhan age 77 in 2021 2001:8003:3269:7500:E50A:1E5C:4607:4AEE (talk) 07:51, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Sirhan Sirhan 2016.jpg (discussion)
• Sirhan Sirhan in 1969.jpg (discussion)

Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:52, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Citation regarding history of Mideast-related violence on U.S. soil

On 17 October 2011, user‎ Redhanker added that "Some scholars believe that the assasination was one of the first major incidents of political violence stemming from the Arab Israeli conflict in the Middle East." Redhanker's citation was "RFK's death now viewed as first case of Mideast violence exported to U.S." San Diego Union Tribune (Boston Globe). June 8, 2008. Such an article does not appear to exist. Such a title does not appear among the 95 articles in that issue of the San Diego Union Tribune, nor is RFK mentioned. The citation was a complete fabrication. (Unless I'm missing something.) Snowfallout (talk) 13:31, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

That is not correct. It does not appear in the San Diego Union-Tribune's archive (most likely) because the original syndication deal from the Boston Globe would not permit them to do so. It does appear in the Globe's archive for June 5, with a different headline; it is paywalled. The SDUT version can be viewed at the Wayback Machine, here, however. I have restored it to the article, with additional cite details noted.

I appreciate the effort you made to keep WP's sourcing accurate. Sometimes the fastest way to track down a citation with a dead link is to paste the dead url into the Webarchive: there's often an archived capture on that site. AukusRuckus (talk) 15:35, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Date and time

Medical observation of available blood 105.113.41.253 (talk) 22:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)