Talk:Sicherheitspolizei

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EDIT JUSTFICATION

As far as I know, the Sicherheitspolizei (Sipo) consisted of the Kriminalpolizei (Kripo) and the Geheime Staatspolizei (Gestapo). It didn't consisted of the Sicherheitsdienst Reichsführer-SS (SD) and the Gestapo! Please see German Wikipedia [1].(88.64.208.123 (talk) 14:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC))[reply]

The previous comment is correct, I corrected the error. Sipo=Gestapo+Kripo —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deadjune1 (talk • contribs) 14:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That is correct, the SiPo consisted of the Kriminalpolizei (Kripo) and the Geheime Staatspolizei (Gestapo) during the time of Nazi Germany until they were folded into the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) in September 1939. Kierzek (talk) 18:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Chronological order/Mergers/SD/SS: In 1936 SS-Chef/Chief Himmler was appointed State Secretary in the Ministry of internal affaires/Home office and Chef of German Police. His first action as State Secretary was the statutory division of the police into the uniformed Ordnungspolizei (Orpo; regular or order police) and the political Sicherheitspolizei (Sipo; state security police). Heydrich was appointed chief of Sipo and Delague was appointed chief of Orpo in the Ministry. In 1939 the Sicherheitspolizei and the SD were merged into the RSHA, it was a hybrid construction, but it was a ”Reichssichssicherheitshauptamt”, not a SS-main-office. The SD was already a main-office of the SS, led by Heydrich. After 1936 Heydrich was also chef of the Sicherheitspolizei. He – like Himmler- was an SS-official when he took over the office as chief of the Sipo in the Ministry of Interior.

No police officer in the Sipo (or the Orpo) was forced to become a member of the SS. But it guaranteed a good career and many choose to apply for membership. In September 1939, the time of the merger of SD and Sipo, 50% of the leading corps of the Sipo were already members of the SS – (Bastian Hein, Die SS. Geschichte und Verbrechen, München 2015, p. 70; in comparison: only 20 % of the leading corps of the Orpo were SS-members). Still, the majority in the Gestapo and the Kriminalpolizei did not join the SS, they did their “duty” as “civil servants”. Those who choose to become also SS-members were incorporated into the SS in the rank corresponding to their police-rank, hence the so called “Dienstgradangleichung”. After the war many claimed to have been coerced into the SS or that it was done automatically, against their will. This myth is still present. (Many of them had a new career after the war, most of them were never in prison, or only a short time.)

Another myth: The Sipo-Kriminalpolizei was not only a normal investigating criminal police but also responsible for crimes against humanity (chase and deportation of Roma and Sinti, homosexuals, prostitutes, “scroungers”, migrant workers - according to NS-policy all not fit for the “Reich” or the “German race” should be eliminated.) The excellent skills and knowledge of the Kripo were used in the efficent killing of mentally ill-persons and later of jews.

It should also be mentioned in the article that SD and Sipo (Gestapo and Criminal Police) had command over the Einsatzgruppen. --Aschland (talk) 18:04, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The text cited in the article is correct. The RSHA was an overarching main office for the SS security services; as its name states. There is nothing in the article which states SS membership was "forced", but it was encouraged, especially if one wanted to really advance beyond a certain level. As for the SD, it became an office (branch) under the RSHA umbrella. As for the Einsatzgruppen, its full name was Einsatzgruppen der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD, so certainly it was made up of members of the SD, SiPo, along with general SS and Waffen-SS members. It was under the command of Himmler and Heydrich and yes, said units were originally under the SiPo. But from Sept. 1939, the units were under the overall control of the RSHA. Note, I did added some detail as to the SiPo in relation to the Einsatzgruppen with cites. Kierzek (talk) 19:29, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sipo 1919-1920

So, let me get this straight: the organization was founded in 1919 as Sicherheitswehr, then - at an unspecified time - renamed to Sicherheitspolizei; there is no mention of it being disbanded or restructured, but in 1936, it was again renamed into Sicherheitspolizei? Something is evidently missing. Most wikis don't even mention any SiPo existing before 1936 (including de.wp) but the situation is somewhat clarified by a lonely sentence in Polish Wikipedia: "Nazwą Sipo określano też niemiecką formację policyjną na Górnym Śląsku istniejącą od wiosny 1919 do 4 października 1920 roku." - "The name Sipo was also used by German police force in Upper Silesia that existed from the spring of 1919 until Oct 4, 1920." Unfortunately, there is no reference. If someone finds a suitable reference (and also, perhaps, the date of creation of that version of SiPo, or ay other factual data like its size or leaders), please insert it into the article, it would greatly clarify the question. --Oop (talk) 07:29, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It was a weird addition, to be sure. Maybe needs to be its own article with this one focused on the Nazi SS agency. -O.R.^Comms 18:11, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I did not make that addition; I know the history of the SiPo from 1936-1939, but as to the "origin of the term" as stated, I don't know any history as to that. Kierzek (talk) 20:26, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

About the picture and the uniforms of Sicherheitspolizei

There doesn't seem to be any members of Sicherheitspolizei in that picture. The picture seems to have a Heer officer, two Ordnungspolizei officers and an SS officer. From what I've read from Andrew Mollo's books on SS uniforms and insignia, members of the Sicherheitspolizei wore SS uniform on duty, even if not members of the SS, and had the same insignia as the Sicherheitsdienst, but only wore the SD sleeve diamond if they were full SS members.

I'd like to hear the opinions of a bigger expert than me, and possibly change the picture as I am not too familiar with the Wikipedia editor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Graublitz (talk • contribs) 16:30, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]