Talk:Siberia Airlines Flight 1812

Accident??!

Why is it an "accident" if Ukraine shoots a plane down, but if someone else does then it's deliberate murder ? Who writes this crap ? and you all accept it ? No I'm not Russian... I'm not Ukrainian I thought Wikipedia was supposed to be impartial. 90.255.234.173 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:39, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

No wikipedia is not impartial. How could it be when it flat out puts white sources at the top of the citations hierarchy?

Nothing is impartial but wikipedia is even more partial than Western academic material. It is very very white supremacist. Sinekonata (talk) 21:40, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Because when you try shoot someone planner like terrorists novorosia report "we just shoot down ukrainian military craft" and it turns out it was mh17 instead of Ukrainian AN26, its called "murder". In our case, there must be in sky only unmanned "dummy".

References

But these "terrorists" still did not intented to shoot down a civilian plane, thats the difference. If you call these separatists "terroists" then what would you call those so called moderate opposition in syria who received U.S. aid and ended up mostly hanging out with ISIS? Freedom fighters? Also, Since they're in a wartime situation (more specifically, a cival war), it's a bad but reasonable thing to hit an airliner by mistake: At least this is the explanation given by Uncle Sam after the U.S. military and their servants "mistakenly hit" airliners or other civilian vehicles time and time again. So I guess the Russians are just as qualified to use that term as Americans. After all, they have a much better record than Americans in this regard. 20:10, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Untitled

"A Career In Microbiology Can Be Harmful To Your Health" - added info on bioweapons experts murder conspiracy theory with regards to Flight 1812's downing, complete with web reference.

Update?

"On June 21, 2004, the spokesperson of Ukraine's General Prosecution Office stated that none of the 11 forensic examinations carried out so far have proven the fact of hitting the Tupolev-154 by a Ukrainian missile so the criminal investigation continued."

Due to it now being 2007, has the issue been resolved? If not, this should be changed to continues. But if it has, then a little something should be added to perhaps reflect the conclusions reached. Coradon 13:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Coradon (talk • contribs) 23:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

• • • Whats the proper etiquette for going back later to sign my edit? Do I remove the "The preceding unsigned comment was added by.." after signing. (Just for future reference)Coradon 13:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• Kiev rejects Israeli lawsuits in plane crash (08/22/2007) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.124.28.71 (talk) 11:07, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Surprise. 10 years of investigation and (full) law proceeding in Ukraine finished on 21 April 2013. Hypotheses about Ukrainian missile S-200 was disproved. After process in Ukraine Siberian Airlines has not take it to the international court. Some people point at missile S-300 launched by Russians on the same training. No comments.

http://rubicon.org.ua/index.php/component/k2/item/96-tu-154-tragediya-nad-chernym-morem

Corrected Kamenski interview date

March 15, 2001, in the Ukrainian weekly, “Facti I Kommentari”, Changed date in article to correct one.Bert Schlossberg (talk) 17:45, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Was the aircraft hit by a missile?

Ukraine admitted it likely hit the plane with a missile.108.48.230.145 (talk) 09:31, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

This section of the talk page contained doubts about the claim of a missile as the cause of the crash. The text was removed because the discussion is irrelevant given the references to Ukranian newspaper reports of the downing by a missile, and because the text contained anti-semitic slurs.

Esterhazy "Johns Hopkins" Material has to go

Really did anyone look at this reference? the "Johns Hopkins" publication is a STUDENT newsletter. It isn't peer reviewed and the author has no prior or subsequent expertise. No military qualifications, no reporting qualifications, no terrorism qualifications, no international affairs or other qualifications all! They appear to be a medical undergrad student who wrote three articles "Op-ed" opinion articles in a student newsletter. 108.48.230.145 (talk) 09:41, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Russia/Ukraine

On 20th July this was added:

In court, in response to question 12 of Siberia Airlines about if the plane's autoresponder was turned on, court experts Burtcev, Kamchatnyy, and Shololovskyy said that the autoresponder was turned off or broken for the entire flight time, so the plane was probably shot by Russian air defense system as unknown flying object. They also said that Russian officials have not denied that. [19]

Emphasis mine. Is that right? Or should it be Ukrainian defense system? 83.137.249.34 (talk) 14:20, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Are we being trolled?

In court, in response to question 12 of Siberia Airlines about if the plane's autoresponder was turned on, court experts Burtcev, Kamchatnyy, and Shololovskyy said that the autoresponder was turned off or broken for the entire flight time, so the plane was probably shot by Russian air defense system as unknown flying object. They also said that Russian officials have not denied that. [19]

I think this section should probably be removed, the source linked is a zip file hosted on what seems to be an entertainment site with no traceability to the original source that i can find. Given the timeline of the edit and the current ukraine-russian trolling of everything related to each other on the internet i would question its reliability and neutrality on that basis too.

This section too has a reference pdf in a zip hosted at the same entertainment site, again recently edited and with no traceability.

None of the 11 forensic examinations[who?][26] carried out so far have proven the probability of hitting the Tupolev-154 by a Ukrainian missile.

I've removed the paragraph sourced by a zip file, whatever it contains. The second section seems to be supported by a pdf that is perfectly accessible, but it's in Russian, so it's far from ideal. It also appears to be a very poor quality photocopy of an original paper report and so the content of the illustrations cannot be really be determined. So it's pretty useless really. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:51, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Title of this article

Why this article named "Siberia Airlines Flight 1812"? --0x0F (talk) 09:17, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

renamed --0x0F (talk) 09:19, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

I think it was Ukranian-NATOs act of terrorism 0x0F (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:22, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

In the English Wikipedia, flights are named after the carrier followed by flight number. See our naming conventions: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events)#Aviation. Stickee (talk) 09:25, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Use the ref tag, please... 0x0F (talk) 09:28, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Sure, the 2001 BBC Article refers to it as Flight 1812. Stickee (talk) 09:35, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

I must write a free e-Book about this inhumanity act of terrorism. The NATO are killers of many childen. (In Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, and Iraq) 0x0F (talk) 14:20, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Can I read about it? Why was it done? Was Ukraine really on the side of NATO then? Or was this done against the government? Sinekonata (talk) 21:47, 10 May 2023 (UTC)