Talk:Shigi Qutuqu/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Aza24 (talk · contribs) 06:51, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Happy to review this! Aza24 (talk) 06:51, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Aza24, ready when you are! ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:31, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Comments below! Lead is last Aza24 (talk) 03:02, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Early life

• I feel like we're missing a sentence with his birth year!

• Can't do that—as said in the second paragraph, the best we can do is "probably a young child in the early 1180s"

• Is the "1178" in the lead/infobox out-dated then? Aza24 (talk) 03:28, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

• It's more or less a scholar's educated guess, so I've added an inline citation.

• The first sentence might be read as Rashid al-Din having authored both sources. Also, I think you can drop the "Hamadani", which I've never seen in scholarship before and is probably just there for article title's disambiguation

• Fixed both

• Most readers won't know who Temüjin is; a "(later "Genghis Kahn)" might be beneficial. It would be good to introduce him too, i.e. "the Mongol Leader Temüjin"

• Done both

• Don't know that jerkin is common enough to not have a link

• Done.

• What does "in the chronicles" mean—The Secret History? Or something else? Since these stories are somewhat anecdotal, the specific source might be helpful

• Clarified, after some searching.

Under Genghis

• For the Yuán Shǐ you have tones but not for the Shengwu qinzheng lu—would keep it consistent either way

• Can't remember what it would be for the SQZL, so removed.

Under Ögedei

• Maybe specific the "Southern Song Dynasty"

• Done.

• "As a leading Mongol scholar and official, Shigi Qutuqu was appointed in 1234 to the position of chief jarghuchi in Northern China" — so does this mean he was based in Northern China now?

• It's implied by the sources and RS but not fully certain.

• "while other sources blame ..." seems to vague. Are these other contemporary accounts like Xu Ting or later chronicles or something?

• Hsu T'ing's "Hei-ta shih lueh", yes. I couldn't find a relevant article, so I didn't specify. Included a redlink now—feel free to change it if you think something else more suitable.

• I'm not sure this makes sense. I believe Hsu T'ing is simply the Wade-Giles transliteration of Xu Ting. You might have the same person twice here? Aza24 (talk) 03:28, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

• No, you're completely right, I have no clue why I wrote that. Corrected to who actually wrote that.

• Assuming no, but we don't know anything more specific than "he probably returned to Mongolia"—like to the capital or something?

• Changed to Karakorum, as that's where the kurultai was held—would be odd if he returned to another part of Mongolia.

• "Shigi Qutuqu survived the new khagan, Möngke ..." makes it sounds like Möngke was killing people that threatened his power or something—assuming you just mean that he survived at least until he began reigning?

• A little bit of both—many prominent followers of Ogedei were purged/impoverished following Möngke's accession, as the election was contested; but also SQ did just outlive him.

Legacy

• This feels like it should be a subheading level 2 and not a part of the biography

• Probably, yes.

• You could link Late Middle Ages instead of "late Middle Ages"

• I just saw that both those pages define themselves as periods of European history, so I've gone for Post-classical history, which, incidentally, we both peer reviewed a while back.

• Good choice! Aza24 (talk) 03:28, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

• I'm a bit confused by the line "He was remembered, under the name Siri Qutuq, as a high-ranking companion of Genghis Khan until the late Middle Ages."—what was he remembered for after this? Or was he forgotten?

• Hopefully clarified, and I believe yes, he was eventually forgotten with the passing time

• The "Not only was ..."—sentence is rather long and hard to parse—could it be split or consolidated?

• Split.

General

• In general, basic information on the art included is always helpful for readers. Particularly, it's nice to know if the depictions are contemporaneous with their subjects or not

• Done to my satisfaction; let me know if anything could be improved.

• I see his son is mentioned in the legacy—are there any other known offspring that can be mentioned in the bio?

• Sadly not.

• I'll read through the lead again later but it looks fine. Would be nice to source the Chinese & Mongol names if possible Aza24 (talk) 03:02, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

• I'll see if I can find them. Thanks Aza24 for your comments! ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:39, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

• It's looking great! I think there are just two points remaining (which I've responded to above)—the birth year and Xu/H'su Ting matter – Aza24 (talk) 03:29, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

• Those should be fixed now, Aza24. Thanks very much. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:21, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

  Looks good. Passing now, congrats! Aza24 (talk) 19:55, 15 June 2023 (UTC)