Talk:Shibayama Railway/GA2

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: AlphaBetaGamma (talk · contribs) 00:03, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: MetropolitanIC (talk · contribs) 06:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Will be taking this on for the coming week. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 06:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Since this is the second GA nomination, I'll go through comments from your GA1 before I get on with the review. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 06:29, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Preliminary Analysis

All mentions of the article will reference this version.

I'm looking through the article right now, and I'm still seeing a couple of problems that are unresolved from the previous GA nomination.

A couple of issues I found from persisting from the previous GA:

• Footnote 8 - "During the run, the sign on the departure board always lists the destination as (Higashi Narita) Shibayama to avoid confusing the customers." I looked through the source, and still couldn't find where it says that in the article. I'm sure I've just missed it/there was an mistake or error in the translation, let me know if you can find the quotation.
• The location map is still missing a source.

New issues from my spotcheck:

• Footnote 10 - The article claims the railway was "founded on May 5, 1981," but source says otherwise, they give "May 1st" as the date.
  • The provided source also states that the railway was given a license to operate "between Shibatetsu Narita Airport Station (adjacent to Higashi-Narita Station) and Seibijo-mae Station."
  • The article claims that the license was to operate "between Higashi-Narita Station and Seibijyō-Mae Station (later renamed to Shibayama-Chiyoda)"
  • I suppose that there's some wiggle room since the stations are adjacent, but it still appears to me that "Shibatetsu Narita Airport Station" and "Higashi-Narita Airport Station" are separate, different stations; the source is miscited on the article.
• Footnote 17 states "Seinō Railway operates the shortest freight-only railway line with an operational length of 1.3 km (0.8 mi)." While the source verifies its length, I can't find any description on the website stating that this railway is the "shortest freight-only railway."

It looks like a lot of the article has been cleaned up since the last GA nomination, there's only a couple of small issues here and there. I won't quick fail it just yet since most of these are just nitpicky issues, but I recommend looking over the article and its citations one more time before I go on with the review.

I will note, the map at Shibayama Railway#Location will need a citation/source, hopefully one exists on the JA wiki. Let me know if you have any other questions. I'll take another look when you're ready. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 08:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Alright。Please hold the review because I'm bust for the rest of the day. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 09:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Also, the map was probably directly pulled from jawiki by whoever had made the article first. I can clearly tell someone on jawiki probably made it for the article... ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 09:34, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm awake now...

• FN8
  • Fix in progress
• FN10
  • Seibijo-mae Station was a placeholder name for Shibayama-Chiyoda Station.
  • I thought Higashi-Narita Station directly connects to the Line... If it was completely separate as you claim through service would be reality-bending. Do I need a citation to point that out? the FN8 website shows that the rider rode the train to Shibayama-Chiyoda from Keisei Higashi-Narita...
  • The difference between the date has been fixed.

ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• FN 10
  • there weren’t any problems with Shibayama Chiyoda, I found a passage in the source that supported the name change.
  • I’m more concerned about the difference between Shibatetsu and Higashi stations. The Wikipedia page claims that the license was for operating from “Higashi-Narita” in the History section, but the footnote doesn’t support that, and claims the license was for operation from “Shibatetsu Narita Station.”
  • While you’re right that the FN8 shows that the line operates from Higashi-Narita *presently*, the FN 10 source cited in the History section shows that back in 1988, that wasn’t the case. That’s the issue here.

I’ll give you some time to take a look at it. I would recommend you do a quick sweep of the rest of the article as well. If my next random check comes up with more citation errors, I’m inclined to quickfail this GA2 before I look at the other criteria since the source problems from the GA1 persist. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 00:47, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

I'll remove the FN8 statement from jawiki because I'm having trouble. It looks like the text came from the jawiki version, and the fucker never provided a source in jawiki. Could've sworn there was a source, but 3 months of time is enough for me to forget everything. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 01:47, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Seriously though, the map is made by a jawiki editor. (https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shibayama_Railway_Linemap.svg) it's from Wikipedia, and I will not find a source for that anywhere. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

That’s unfortunate. Maybe there’s a similar map that depicts the same train station in one of the sources? I’ll take look around. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 02:24, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, no... ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 22:26, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Well the best source I could come up with is a diagram on Google Maps: [1]

If you're done looking over the article, I'd like to continue the review. I'll hold it for a couple more days. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 01:56, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

@MetropolitanIC, I've done my best to stamp out the citation issues. I don't know what to fucking do if this article still has the issue. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 03:02, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Just coming back to say that I am in fact actively reviewing this (I have notes and comments typed up). I've just been a bit busy. Sorry about the delay, I'll have comments up soon. MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 06:57, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @MetropolitanIC, any progress on this? If not, I would be happy to continue from where you left off. I understand from your user page banner that you might not have the time for this right now. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:11, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi @It is a wonderful world, I just saw your comment through an email notification. I am indeed currently going through some stuff, so I'd be open to you taking over the review. I really appreciate the help.

(AlphaBetaGamma, sincere apologies for holding up the article review. I hope it gets wrapped up soon.) MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 08:33, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Citation Check #2

Hey @AlphaBetaGamma, I've had this typed up for a bit and was hoping to post this along with the main review, but it's taking me a bit longer than expected. I've only been able to get back on Wikipedia recently after some IRL issues. I'll go ahead and post this first, the main review will be finished soon. Again, sorry about the delay.

Citations below are from this version: [2]

• Randomly selected - 5, 6, 14, 18, 21
  • FN 5 - Good
  • FN 6 - Good
  • FN 14 - Good
  • FN 17 - Good
  • FN 18 - Looks like footnote 17 from earlier. Claiming it as the shortest freight-only railway isn't supported by the source.
  • FN 21 - Good

Footnote 18 is a bit iffy, but other than that I think we're good to go ahead. I'm ll start on the main review.

MetropolitanIC (💬|📝) 06:54, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

The FN after 18 supports the shortest freight railway claim. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:54, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Review by IAWW

Hi AlphaBetaGamma, per the messages above it appears MetropolitanC cannot finish this review and is open to me finishing it for him. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I have reviewed below. I think the prose needs quite a bit of work, so it may take a few iterations of reviewing to get it up to standard. Once the prose issues are solved I will do the spot check. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:12, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Prose (Criteria 1a, 1b, 4) clock

Lead

I think the first paragraph is great.

Per WP:LEAD, the lead section is an introduction to an article and a summary of its most important contents. This means information in the lead should be verified (normally in more detail) in the body. So, Narita International Airport Corporation owns a 68.40% majority stake in Shibayama Railway as of March 2019. The remainder is owned by Keisei Electric Railway, Japan Airlines, the prefectural government, and others should be moved to somewhere in the body, and then summarized in the lead. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The lead then also needs to summarize the most important parts of the article. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Stations and operation

History

I think Japanese English more commonly uses dmy dates? It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

What are "dedicated small train sets"? It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

It isn't correct to use "However" here, since it doesn't contrast strongly with the previous sentence. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

However, the railway line was forced to extend the line by a further 0.2 km due to problems with buying land in 2000, and the name of the new station was chosen to be Shibayama-Chiyoda on the same year.: Connecting these clauses with ", and" doesn't flow well at all, because they are such separate ideas. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The construction of the railway was strongly demanded by Shibayama residents: Is "demanded" a bit strong here? Is implies the residents felt they had a right for the line to be built for them. Maybe something like "supported" is better. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Hmmm, I thought it was the right usage since the airport cut off access, and if I remember from the source one of them stated the railway was some sort of a reparation or something. I don't know, really. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 03:41, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

As the jawiki version states:

"芝山鉄道は、成田空港が建設されることによって東西方向の交通が寸断され不便を被ることになる空港東側地域の住民や企業への補償として、国が当時の京成本線の（旧）成田空港駅（現在の京成東成田線の東成田駅）以遠を第三セクター方式で延伸する形で建設を約束した鉄道である。" ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 03:44, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

The construction of the railway was strongly demanded by Shibayama residents and was supported by the Transport Ministry and Narita Airport Authority to appease residents of the area immediately east of Narita International Airport, as the airport property cut off Shibayama's access to Narita City and points west: Packing all this into a single sentence makes it hard to read. Could you break it up a bit to make it flow better? It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Link "Chiyoda" It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

There was a proposal to extend the line into Chiyoda until 1996: What happened in 1996 to stop this? It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport: If this is the same ministry mentioned in the previous paragraph, it should use the full name in the first instance, and then you can shorten it after that. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport has recommended studying an extension into central Shibayama Town: I have no clue what "studying" means in this context. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Line

There's no need for a bullet point list for a single item, it should probably be incorporated into the prose. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The Shibayama Railway Line advertises itself: The line doesn't advertise itself, the company advertises the line. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

gives out [free] certificates for using the line for free[it].: Conciseness It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

However, the Kurama-dera Cable is the shortest cable car line in Japan with a length of 207 meters (0.1 mi): What does a cable car line have to do with a railway? It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Rolling stock

Link "rolling stock"

The company has been using a Keisei 3500 series since 2013: Surely not a singular Keisei 3500 series? It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

During the time [the] 3600 series was used by the Shibayama Railway: Conciseness It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

This section doesn't mention the 5300 series, but there is a photo of it on the line. What's up with that? It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The section used to mention stuff related to it, but was removed. The image stayed for some reason though. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 03:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Sources clock

Health/formatting (Criterion 2a) clock

No dead links, I added archives via IABot so the URLs are no longer susceptible to link rot. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The references would really benefit from some metadata being added to them, especially references like [7] and [8]. Another example is [16], it's unlikely that the reader knows the acronym MLIT, so it should be fully spelled out and linked. Consider also linking to the publishers/newspapers. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Is it possible to add URLs to the references without them? That would be really helpful for the readers. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Reliability (Criterion 2b) Y

I struggled (because I don't speak Japanese aha), but it looks as though everything is reliable. It is a mixture of news sources, books, and some primary sourcing. I don't see any issues here. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Spot check (Criteria 2b, 2c, 2d) clock

Will do the spot check when I have finished reviewing the prose. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Copyvio (Criterion 2d) clock

0.0% on Earwig copyvio detector, will check for any too close paraphrasing on the spot check.

Scope (Criteria 3a, 3b) Y

Having looked at other railway good and featured articles, it looks as though this is broad in its coverage. No issues here.

Stable (Criterion 5) Y

Media clock

The images in this article are quite poorly laid out and inconsistently formatted, causing some blank space. The top of the article is very image heavy, while the middle/bottom of the article could take some more. To fix these issues, I suggest:

• Change the "gallery" of one image to a normally formatted image and caption It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
• Swap the "Stations and operation" section with the "History" section It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
• Move the image of the map into the "Stations and operation" section, formatting it as a downsized thumbnail image with caption (where the citation can be included). You can use the |upright=scaling factor parameter to pick the size of the image you want. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Can translations be added to the Japanese in the map? To an English speaker the Japanese means nothing, so if at all possible the annotations should be translated to English. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

@It is a wonderful world ...How do I do this? ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 22:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

@AlphaBetaGamma, this is a vector graphics file (.svg), so you will want to edit it in some vector image editing software like Inkscape. It will most likely allow you to edit the text in the image. IAWW (talk) 11:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The two almost identical images of the Keisei 3500 series is quite redundant, I suggest cutting the image in the infobox, with will help give space to the other images. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Tags (Criterion 6a) Y

Captions (Criterion 6b) clock

A series 5300 of Tokyo Metropolitan Bureau of Transportation listing the destination as "(Higashi Narita) Shibayama"

• Could "listing the destination as "(Higashi Narita) Shibayama" be changed to "on the Shibayama railway" for conciseness? It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Suggestions (not needed for GA promotion)

It would be cool if the stations had coordinates and some other information similar to this. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

"No." can become "No." with the Abbr template. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I think the "Japanese" column would do better integrated into the "Station" column to save space. It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I've had a rough and a busy December so far irl, and I'll work on this when I have the time. I've been wondering where the reviewer went to for the last week, so thanks for intervening. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:13, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

No worries, ping me when you have had time to address the concerns. It is a wonderful world (talk) 14:22, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Okay, holiday season is arriving and I'll slowly shift my time to this GAN. I have a Prius Missile DYK ongoing along with this, so I may have to finish that before I finish the tasks here. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 01:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

@It is a wonderful world, I've lost track which ones I finished and which ones I still have to do, mainly because I was trying to get a DYK through. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:38, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi @AlphaBetaGamma, I have removed all the points that were adequately addressed. This article's prose still requires a lot of work to meet GA standard, and is an example of a fix loop. I am willing to go through the process of iteratively fixing the article's prose, but the process requires prompt fixing of issues and will likely drag on for multiple months. I think the best option is to fail for now. If you would like to continue working on the article then ping me (on the articles talk page, my user page, or at a peer review listing) when you have addressed all the points raised here, and I will give it another prose review. IAWW (talk) 07:31, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.