Talk:Serbia men's national water polo team

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Serbia is successor

Please at once respect rules and law! Serbia is successor of Yugoslav medals, so no need to separate them. FINA recognizes it that way!

Photo(s)

I uploaded a photo of the team before a 2008 Olympic game in Beijing. Would love to have the player's names matched with numbers in that photo. I took the photo and put it into the public domain. Enjoy. Rauterkus (talk) 17:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yugoslav National Team

I feel very sad to see that in Croatian National Waterpolo page we can find the medals of Yugoslavia. That country had 24 million inhabitants of wich only 4 million were croats. They so strongly disagre about FIFA and UEFA decision to give to Serbia the continuity of the Yugoslav football records but they "kidnap" to them the Yugoslav waterpolo records! I can´t beleve nobody from the serbian wikipedians did nothing about it. This page should at least include, the same way the croat does, the records of the Yugoslav waterpolo team. The croats even say they made part of the Austro-Hungarian team but, truth must be said, they mention that no croat made part of the teams. Did they think the hungarians would alloud theat? The hungarians are not so naive like the serbians. Please serbian wikipedians do something about it. It was you, your parents and your grand parents who won those medals. 95.69.105.72 (talk) 23:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC)Tasmajdan[reply]

Than it must be reported and deleted! Serbia is successor178.223.32.245 (talk) 19:54, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

SFR Yugoslavian results

@Gagibgd: You have been trying to include the results of Yugoslavia men's national water polo team into this article since at least 2013, and you have been reverted every time. I hoped you will get the hint that you ought to discuss your changes, but you don't seem to get it.

There is working WP:CONSENSUS that all of Serbia's national teams in any collective sport should include only results from 1992 onwards (and even 2006, for some sports), no matter what the international federation says about the legal inheritance. That applies to Serbia men's national basketball team, Serbia men's national volleyball team, Serbia men's national football team and Serbia men's national handball team. There is no reason nor logic to assign results of Yugoslavian teams (1919–1992), at the time when Serbia was only a small part of Yugoslavia, and did not even exist as a legal entity (1919–1945). I find it preposterous that you revert with summary "no surce to claim this" when you, yourself, haven't provided a source, and in fact, the whole article has one single source, and only for the 2017 squad. In fact, the article duly notes that FINA considers Serbia the inheritor of the records of Serbia and Montenegro, (unsourced as well), but I can't even find a hint on www.fina.org that they consider Serbia to be an inheritor of Yugoslavia.

What I can find at FINA is History document^[1], where they do make an explicit distinction: CRO Croatia (until 1992) and Serbia & Montenegro/SCG (until 2002) were part of Yugoslavia (YUG) and then lists YUGOSLAVIAn players in five separate sections until 1992. In particular, page 50 lists all achievements of SFR Yugoslavia and FR Yugoslavia until 2002, but with a "see also" disclaimer. As a matter of fact, the history covers the countries as they were called at the time of participation.

So, please desist with making unsourced and controversial changes. You don't have either sources or consensus on your side. No such user (talk) 07:34, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This can help, FINA medals table (looked at page 14) ^[2] DusanSilniVujovic (talk) 01:00, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Gagibgd:: You don't mess with our article [1]. Serbia did not exist at all in 1936, and had no water polo team between 1945 and 1992. Yugoslavia men's national water polo team is over there, and it covers the results of Yugoslavian team up to 1992. Serbian team is not the same as the Yugoslavian team, and Serbia is not the only legal inheritor of SFR Yugoslavia. No such user (talk) 14:50, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@No such user:: Even you provided the documents where it says that YUG/SCG/SRB are merged (titles are merged), so stop acting clever if FINA considers Serbia and Yugoslavia to be the same team. Gagibgd (talk) 15:05, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That same document on page 14 only states that Yug, Srb and SCG have won 5 WC titles together, and 9 OG+WCH together. However, our article is about Serbia (and SCG) team, not about all those teams together. The document also clearly delineates Yug, Srb and SCG medals on pages 21 and 23, as well as 28-29 - just as our articles do. So you cannot just cite the part of the source you like. No such user (talk) 15:21, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tbh, SCG should have it's own article. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 20:20, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Gagibgd:: Please stop reverting and start discussing. I clearly explained what is wrong with your claims, and that the source you provided does not support the sentence FINA considers Serbia the inheritor of the records of Serbia and Montenegro, and Yugoslavia[6]. For the start, Serbia itself does not claim the entire SFRY history, at least not officially. See Arbitration Commission of the Peace Conference on Yugoslavia#Opinion No. 10 (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia - Serbia and Montenegro): FRY (Serbia and Montenegro) could not legally be considered a continuation of the former SFRY, but it was a new state. Thus, the European Community should not automatically recognize the FRY but apply the same criteria as for the recognition of the other post-SFRY states. Even if you disagree (and I don't see much basis for that), the way to solve an editing disagreement is to have a WP:RFC or discuss the issue in a broader venue; edit-warring (what you've been doing for years here) can only get you blocked, eventually. No such user (talk) 12:44, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@No such user:: I believe the opinion of arbitration commission you provided as argument is inadmissible in this discussion. To be more specific, the opinion doesn't explicitly state that sports governing organizations of FR Yugoslavia aren't successors of sports governing organizations of SFR Yugoslavia. In short, the arbitration commission gave opinions on matters of international law, not international sports governing. For matters related to international sports, the official statements of international sports governing organizations (IOC, FIFA, FIBA, etc.) are only admissible arguments.IT.EngineerSRB (talk) 08:52, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "WATER POLO MEDALLISTS AND STATISTICS" (PDF). FINA. December 3, 2015.
^ https://www.fina.org/sites/default/files/final_histofina_wp_2016_0.pdf

[1] "WATER POLO MEDALLISTS AND STATISTICS" (PDF). FINA. December 3, 2015.

[2] ttps://www.fina.org/sites/default/files/final_histofina_wp_2016_0.pdf

[1]

[2]