Talk:Secret Treaty of Dover

Secret Treaty of Dover was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 2, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on March 15, 2005.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ...that with the Secret Treaty of Dover signed between England and France, King Charles II attempted to convert England to Catholicism?

Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on June 1, 2011, and June 1, 2020.

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GA Comment

There aren't any in-line cites, and only one reference for this article. Whilst the article seems otherwise alright, it's hard to accept it without them. Adam Cuerden ^talk 18:00, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article suffers in its coverage (criterion 3). The topic is too narrowly focussed which is why there wouldn't be too much to say other than the three paragraphs of the first section. The second section is mainly about another topic, the Third Anglo-Dutch War. That article also suffers in the breadth of its coverage. I would suggest both articles be merged and expanded in order to satisfy criterion 3. The merged article can then be renominated to for GA. RelHistBuff 12:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure about the recommendation for merger, but the coverage is definitely lacking. From reading Macaulay, I get the impression that most of the privy council knew there was to be a treaty, but that the more obnoxious clauses were concealed from all but a few. When did details of the secret provisions become known, and what were the political consequences? Choess 03:36, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Public Treaty

The "open" Treaty of Dover was signed and sealed in December 1670. It had been "negotiated" for England by the Duke of Buckingham, who was surprised by how quickly and smoothly the work went: he didn't know that the treaty had already been negotiated, and that his version was an abridgement, leaving out the parts about King Charles declaring himself a Roman Catholic and reconciling his kingdom to the Church of Rome. We need to get this into the text, as "Treaty of Dover" redirects here. I can probably find sources within this month. As for when the secret treaty became known, I think it was only in the nineteenth century, when someone poking around in dusty archives found it. That, too, can and should be documented. J S Ayer (talk) 02:37, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What does the writer mean by 'public?' It had become an open secret within government circles before the Oxford Parliament. Using its full disclosure in toto in the 1830s is therefore slightly misleading as opponents of the Caroline regime were aware of certain clauses band suspected more, without written proof.Jatrius (talk) 14:41, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Signatories

The lede states "The secret treaty was signed by Arlington, Arundell, Clifford and Bellings for England and Colbert de Croissy for France." but none of these individuals are mentioned in the article. I suppose the people involved were Henry Bennet, 1st Earl of Arlington, Richard Arundell, 1st Baron Arundell of Trerice, Thomas Clifford, 1st Baron Clifford of Chudleigh, Richard Bellings (courtier) and Charles Colbert, marquis de Croissy. Tigerboy1966 08:04, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Calendar/dates - O.S. or N.S.?

Is it known whether the signing was on 1 June O.S. or 1 June N.S.? The treaty was signed in England, which still used the O.S. calendar at that time; France, basing Catholic, would have already switched to N.S.. And, given that it was a notably pro-Roman Catholic agreeement, there's it is reasonable to doubt the assumption of O.S. dates solely on the grounds of it being signed in England.. anyone? Firejuggler86 (talk) 00:15, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Conversion

Article should state if Charles converted to Catholicism, and if he then got the promised cash.2A00:23C7:E284:CF00:6521:CFB2:9C4C:54E4 (talk)