Talk:Sean O'Callaghan

This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Military history: British / European

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	British military history task force
	European military history task force

Ireland Mid‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Northern Ireland

	Northern Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Northern Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Northern IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject Northern IrelandTemplate:WikiProject Northern IrelandNorthern Ireland-related articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Irish republicanism Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Irish republicanism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Irish republicanism and Irish nationalism related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Irish republicanismWikipedia:WikiProject Irish republicanismTemplate:WikiProject Irish republicanismIrish republicanism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled

Should this article really be in the category of "British Spies" seeing as he spied for Ireland, albeit in a terrorist organisation that primarily operated against the UK?

"Turned informer"

The phrase 'turned informer' seems a little perjorative to me.

I don't know about that now. He was simply saving lives and defending the Realm. As such 'turned informer' could only be good, surely? Just think Paul and Damascus, a man who realised the error of his ways and was saved. Young Seán equally realised that after centuries Her Majesty's realm was really trying to help the Irish. He saw the error of his ways, and that of his people. 'Turned informer' conjures up redemption and self-awareness. I couldn't think of a finer way of phrasing it. El Gringo 10:42, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

o callaghan is a traitor i hope he dies of something slow and painful theres nothing lower than a ratBouse23 15:22, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As he's a famously emaciated chain-smoker, statistically there's a pretty good chance you'll get your wish. On the other hand, if those whom the Gods love die young, informers may last a little longer. (No hard feelings, Sean..) 82.29.15.223 (talk) 20:10, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

British Spy?

I also question the category British Spy. He worked for the Gardai and only spoke to the British authorities after he fled Ireland because he was under suspicion from the IRA. He did pass on some information to the British while in prison there after he handed himself in and confessed to murder. Its become a common place that he worked for British intelligence but it is not true unless you count his period in jail.

Which I do.

Lapsed Pacifist 19:30, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence for 'senior member' claim

I'd like to see the evidence that O Callaghan was a former 'senior member', and I'd like to see the source. I don't believe any such evidence will be forthcoming so I've removed the 'senior' part until it is. El Gringo 10:45, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Homosexuality

O'Callaghan is an alleged homosexual - shouldnt he be added in the Irish LGBT section?? Vintagekits 16:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No. See Wikipedia:Categorization/Gender, race and sexuality, and note that WP:LIVING and WP:V apply to categories too. Demiurge 17:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sean is not gay. End of story. The very suggestion is laughable.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Iamlondon (talk • contribs)

On this note, the section on the article about the robbery controversy is way too long in relation to its importance, especially considering it's completely irrelevant to his notability. WP:BLP: "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid. It is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives." Also some of the sentences are copyvio from [1]. Demiurge 10:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well then edit it if you think you can make the article better - dont just delete it, your actions could be considered by some as vandalism. If your not happy with the section then state here what you suggest, regards Vintagekits 17:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did edit it, and I stated my reasons for doing so here. Only people who don't know what vandalism is could consider this vandalism. If you want to revert my edits, please do me the courtesy of addressing these reasons first. Demiurge 18:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As usually respect your work I am not going to edit it yet until I do more research on the issue. Vintagekits 18:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did re-edit it and shortened the section as well and added more references. I dont understand what your problem is with this section! Are you trying to say that the robbery didnt happen? Why are you trying to keep this section out? Vintagekits 19:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've explained why in my 7 November comment just above. Please explain why you think it should stay in despite WP:BLP. Demiurge 19:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It doesnt contravein that policy - it is simply reporting the issue, no titillating comment - simple facts!! its been widely reported and is one of the significant events about this person and should be put in. Vintagekits 20:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Biographies of living people must be written conservatively and with due regard to the subject's privacy....In such cases, editors should exercise restraint and include only information relevant to their notability....In borderline cases, the rule of thumb should be "do no harm".". The incident in question has nothing whatsoever to do with O'Callaghan's notability. This particularly applies since your proposed version dwells on the lurid allegations by the defendant without mentioning that the court didn't believe him. (And it's still a copyvio from [2] — switching a few words around doesn't make it an original work.) Demiurge 20:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing lurid, just reporting what was said at a court case under oath and what was report in the media. Vintagekits 23:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've raised this on the BLP noticeboard at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Sean_O.27Callaghan, I think a third opinion would be helpful. Feel free to add your input there. Demiurge 23:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's pretty clear now that you have no intention of compromising and you want to impose your own version of the article in violation of WP:BLP. An independent editor agrees with me that your version is inappropriate. Demiurge 23:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That is nonsense, there is NPOV in that section, if you want I can have five or six editors to come over and back me up. The article as it stands is well written and well researched. Vintagekits 23:44, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please do, I would welcome their input, the more the merrier. From your edit history on this article, starting with your attempt to add this category without any reliable sources, I think it's obvious that you have an agenda here.Demiurge 23:53, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thats bull - I was happy to change that once I had done more research and I have said on a number of occasions that he is not gay. I have done a lot more research on this topic and have referenced all the article and rewritten the article on a number of occasions to accomodate your POV, even if you try to censor mine! I hope you are happy are the moment as the article looks stupid with the current edit left in! Also you deleted out my other minor edits! Vintagekits 23:56, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How is O'Callaghans'sexual orientation of any relevance to the article ? Besides, he states in his book that he was married twice.I agree that the "gay" part really needs to be deleted.jeanne (talk) 11:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Role in the IRA

"He was allegedly the head of the Southern Command and was a substitute delegate on the IRA Army Council."

He is the only person ever to have alleged that. He wasn't head of the Southern Command and he certainly wasn't anywhere near an Army Council meeting.

"Thus far he is the most senior Provisional Irish Republican Army defector to have emerged."

That's absolute garbage and totally blows out of proportion the role he had in the IRA.

(Irish Republican 03:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC))[reply]

I agree, that should be removed - he and he alone is the only person to claims this.--Vintagekits 15:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Self professed!

he claimed a lot of thing but none proven - see here!! Interesting - no other SO'C!!--Vintagekits 18:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Again has anyone looked at this website - this website has details of EVERYONE who stood in any election down to borough council level and there is no mention of SO'C running or being elected - did he run under another name?--Vintagekits 23:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He stood in Tralee in '85 in the local elections and these election results aren't on it. It's not on the web as I've checked, probabaly pre-web for local councillors in Kerry. This would need a paper source, but the veracity to this 'claim' is attested is 3rd party news sources so it can be claimed as fact. Weggie 23:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Finucane and Adams claims

Any opinions about adding his claims about Finucane and Adams on this article? Properly attributed of course, and sourced from the Telegraph article where he made the claims. He seems to have made the Finucane claim earlier as well, see this Spectator article. The Finucane claims could then be balanced by the RUC supporting the family's position that he was not an IRA member, and the Stevens Inquiry finding that he was not. (if this is the case, I think it is but can't find it in the report) The Adams allegation can be countered by his denial. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 09:39, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone? Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 08:39, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

These claims should not be added to the article, as they are irrelevant to Sean O'Callaghan himself and as he is not fit to make such claims on an encyclopedia (he is not a reliable source, and this has been discussed at length over at Talk:Gerry Adams). The insertion of the suggested claims would add nothing of encyclopedic value to the article and would only serve to libel Adams and Finucane. gaillimh^{Conas tá tú?} 11:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They are entirely relevant to O'Callaghan, he made them and is notable for making such controversial claims. He may not be entirely reliable, he certainly does have fringe theories but this doesn't exclude inclusion on Wikipedia. Not a great example - but are David Icke's claims excluded from his article? And neither his or O'Callaghan's claims are libel, as they would be attributed properly. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 08:49, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Any more comments? Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 10:45, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unreference material removed

I have removed material from this article that does not comply with our policy on the biographies of living persons. Biographical material must always be referenced from reliable sources, especially negative material. Negative material that does not comply with that must be immediately removed. Note that the removal does not imply that the information is either true or false.

Please do not reinsert this material unless you can provide reliable citations, and can ensure it is written in a neutral tone. Please review the relevant policies before editing in this regard. Editors should note that failure to follow this policy may result in the removal of editing privileges.--Doc^g 18:33, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Informer.jpg

Image:Informer.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Originally Joined to Fight the Republican Cause

Having read The Informer, I can see (to a certain extent) the reasons behind Sean O'Callaghan joining the Provisional IRA. Having grown up in an environment opposing the British occupation of Ireland (his father was an active member of the IRA), he seemed to me to join up to fight the republican cause albeit with a rather militant outlook. As time went on and he matured, it seems to me that he carried out what was expected of him, whilst not totally agreeing fully with some of the aspects of the aforementioned. Veiwpoints from certain members of the organisation didnt sit well with him.

I tend to think that a mixture of guilt for his own attrocities, and a blurring of the lines between so called 'British Institutional' targets and civilian ones have led him down the road of becoming an Informer. With the obvious stigma and implications attached to becoming an Informer, he took a very big risk, essentially putting his life on the line in order to save innocent lives. This said, the book is very self glorifying, and very quick and blunt in naming and tainting the names lot of alleged members.

In essence I beleive what he did was right, and he saved a lot of lives in the process. As for all the allegations and associations made in the book, I would take those with a pinch of salt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rynocov (talk • contribs) 10:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling/Grammar Error

The third paragraph in the section title "Role as an informant" has this sentence: If you did something wrong than you made amends.

The sentence is incorrect, it should be then rather than than. However, is this error present because that's how it was written in his autobiography?

217.44.120.255 (talk) 18:25, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Sean O'Callaghan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20041229235129/http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2004/06/13/story817666269.asp to http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2004/06/13/story817666269.asp

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:44, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]