Talk:Scholarship

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Rework of Article Discussion

I have reviewed this work, and would like to begin the discussion on a rework of the article. I would like to hear anyones thoughts on this matter prior to my editing or overhauling. I will wait 7 days for discussion before making any edits. please discussIlliniGradResearch (talk) 15:05, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

2001 Discussion

Thesis: serious scholarship produces something of value which those who have not engaged in it in some cases cannot properly appreciate. Their failure to appreciate it is what makes so many CrankS.

Why should we care about idiosyncratic views of someone from the outside looking in? Usually, no matter how intelligent and wide-ranging one's experience, if one has not done serious study of the subject, one is bound to sound like a crank, and one will simply annoy and turn away serious students of the subject and those who value serious scholarship. And by "serious scholarship" that I do not mean university study--university study is only one, certainly not infallible, way to engage in serious study.

What, then, does serious study of a subject require? It requires, first, acknowledging that you don't know very much about the subject. Second, it requires reading many books and (for academic and most professional disciplines) journal articles, until one is familiar with the leading theories, concepts, jargon, people, and historical trends that are recognized by experts in the field.

Serious study of a subject does not--emphatically not--require that one buy into any particular current theories.

-- Larry Sanger 22:01, 6 February 2001

Of course SeriousScholarship is important. But equally important is to avoid AcademicElitism.

--Jimbo Wales 22:37, 6 February 2001

I agree with that. LS ---- 22:48, 6 February 2001

And what about a discipline like Pure Mathematics? To begin with people with a serious interest in Mathematics DO NOT READ Mathematics books.

And then there is Language study - Again this is hardly a question of READING books.

I don't find this description of scholarship very comprehensive...I believe that each discipline has its own requirements for scholarship and expertise. RoseParks

External links policy

This page seems to attract more than a few external links, since ennumerable scholarships exist. I propose limiting the links to (free) scholarship information and (free) scholarship searching tools, and among those, limiting it to a few of the best. I am going to go ahead and remove a link to help a student since it seems at present to be a single scholarship. Thoughts? --Hansnesse 01:22, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

External link

The link http://www.earnscholarships.com was posted to the article. It does not seem like a comprehensive resource (and in my browser, it appears poorly formatted), and I removed it. Since it is back, I have moved it here for further discussion. Thoughts? --TeaDrinker 08:33, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Scholarship Portal

I always want to create a sort of... "wikipedia scholarship portal" which contains a list of scholarship providers etc and categorized it by ... let say... geographic area, nature, etc.

Too bad... I do not know how to do it

AdityaLesmana 02:12, 26 April 2006

Wikipedia is really not a directory of web resources. You might have better luck starting a different wiki with that goal, or maybe suggest it over at Wikicities. --TeaDrinker 01:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

What about a wikibook on the subject? It would focus on the history of scholarships, how they are organized, how to get them and also a directory of web sources. Also, are there not enough articles on scholarships to warrent a portal to organize them? I'm not suggesting an organization of every scholarship, but just those wich warrent an encyclopedia article and are culturally significant. Tmchk | Talk 10:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Types?

The three types listed currently are merit-based, need-based, and ethnicity-based. Maybe this should be expanded or looked at a bit differently. For instance the America's Junior Miss scholarship is for females only, so where does it fit in? Maybe ethnicity could be expanded to include genetic qualifiers (race, sex, etc.) and another category could be added for others such as scholarships that require having worked at a particular place?

--Gordaen 16:57, 8 November 2006

Scholarship issue

Can y'all take a look at College Scholarship Penalty? Can this information be sourced? Merged? ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:27, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

USA oriented

This article is focused only on scholarships within the USA, although it admits that some minority based scholarships may be available outside of it. The types section appears to be the worst - indicating that merit based scholarships are only granted as a result of American tests, and that only US institutions and companies offer other types of scholarships. --92.27.207.93 (talk) 21:36, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

USA orientated... if you're going to point out the American-centricism of this article, you might want to avoid using American-English: "oriented" is the American spelling of "orientated"; "focussed" is how "focused" is spelt (not "spelled") correctly in Britain.

=P

Merge with Bursary

Merging this with bursary might eliminate some of these issues. Chamberlian (talk) 18:48, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Responses to a Scholarship Offer

Our oldest son is currently applying to universities. This week, he received his first "academic, merit-based" scholarship OFFER. I emphasize the word offer because the form that he must sign and return includes two choices:

• "I accept this award"
• "I decline this award"

We can't imagine why anyone would decline a merit-based scholarship, so we came to this Wikipedia page, looking for information on "responses to a scholarship offer". As expected (unfortunately), the article does not include such information.

I'm "old school". From my perspective, there's only one proper response to a scholarship offer--"Thanks". However, the world seems to have developed into a place where everything is negotiable. Our son's first scholarship offer is a "partial fee remission". Maybe we could decline the award as a step in the negotiation process because we, of course, would prefer a full fee remission. That behavior seems inappropriate and ungrateful to me, though.

In conclusion, I am requesting addition of a new section to this article on the topic "Responses to a Scholarship Offer".

ProResearcher (talk) 01:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

This section is very informative, but I believe additions to the athletic scholarship portion should be expanded.(SmoothGenau (talk) 02:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC))

amount

Why no numbers? How much does an American grad-student get and how much do grad-students in England get etc.? Is it enough to make a living? Were scholarship higher or lower during the 1950s, 60s etc. (in comparison to other incomes, of course)? --193.175.206.234 (talk) 16:14, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Comment moved from article

An unregistered editor left the following comment in the article: "(Random individual) I'm pretty certain this article needs far more information in regards to controversy and percentages of what students receive aid. I know it's obvious, but this stuff sounds a little 'incomplete.'" ElKevbo (talk) 18:16, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Defining scholarship

Scholarship may refer to the concrete noun meaning a bursary or alternatively to an abstract noun meaning the process or result of learning. The discussion here refers to the former definition. Bruce Graham (talk) 05:59, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Scholarship is not a bursary. Bursaries are need-based awards. Scholarships are merit-based award. deisenbe (talk) 22:32, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Confusion caused by different meanings of "scholarship" in and outside the U.S.

This is copied from the Talk page of User:Dilby:

What is your evidence that scholarship - a merit-based award - is not overwhelmingly a U.S. phenomenon?

deisenbe (talk) 22:28, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, what you wrote was that scholarships are unique to the US. This is false. I'd also need a source before I accepted "overwhelmingly", as this seems like a very strong claim given the huge numbers of scholarships available around the world. - Bilby (talk) 22:56, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

What is your evidence that there are "huge numbers" of scholarships - merit-based awards - around the world? I worked for 2004-2010 full time in college financial aid (see Edifi), have traveled abroad extensively, including during this period, and speak several foreign languages. It's news to me. There are other kinds of financial aid available, but those are mostly grants (need-based awards). A bursary (U.K.) is a grant, not a scholarship. deisenbe (talk) 12:43, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm finding this to be an odd discussion. Scholarships are common outside of the US - a quick search will turn up thousands in the UK, Europe and Australia. Not to mention places such as China, South-East Asia, and Africa. But if you can turn up a source saying hat scholarships are unique to the US, I'll be interested to see what it has to say. - Bilby (talk) 12:52, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Well I went to google and searched for scholarships England, France, and Italy. What is clear is that the word scholarship is used differently outside the U.S., and is used there to mean what in the U.S.are called grants. I also went to a portal, http://becas.universia.es, that claims to have in one place information on all the schokarships available in Spain. At the undergraduate level there were a total of five, four for study abroad and one that is arguably a scholarship as the word is used in the U.S. (a merit-based award), for music students from a particular province.

I'm going to copy this to the talk page of the article. deisenbe (talk) 13:18, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Before we rewrite this article to be exclusively from a US perspective, what is your understanding of a scholarship? From reading this article, a scholarship is financial support provided to a student based on criteria other than solely financial need (to differentiate it from a bursary or grant), and which does not need to be repaid, (as opposed to a loan), and which may have performance conditions attached. Is this incorrect? If not, how does this differ from scholarships as applied elsewhere in the world?

Perhaps the first step should be to get a solid definition of a scholarship going. Are there any recommended sources to turn to for this? - Bilby (talk) 14:41, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm not going to work on this article any more

I don't care to spend a lot of time on an article when everything I do (about 2500 characters this time) is reverted by @Bilby. I think some of his reversions are just plain wrong. (I have 7 years full-time experience in college financial aid in the United States.) I hope it's obvious, if you review the exchanges on this page and his reversions, that I know a lot more about the topic than he does. I'm not going to go finding references just to satisfy him (or anybody else). What I did was taken out, in my opinion making the article less clear and less informative than before, but keep it the way you want it. Won't inconvenience me.

If you'd like to see the article as I left it, before his reversions, here is the link:

https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Scholarship&oldid=705610607

deisenbe (talk) 21:28, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm sure that you know a lot more about this than I do, which is why it is disappointing that you won't be working on it. Unfortunately, the need to add references is a core element of Wikipedia. - Bilby (talk) 21:39, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Some of your wrong-headed (IMHO) reverts have nothing to do with sources. To "Types of scholarships" I added "in the United States", since the section deals only with the United States. I think it's helpful to tell the reader what is in a section, rather than the title of something you think it should talk about, but doesn't. You took out my addition. deisenbe (talk) 00:38, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Do we know if those types of scholarships are exclusive to the US? Or are they generic types of scholarships, some of which might be US specific, and some of which might not? Man of those scholarships exist outside of the US, so perhaps we should keep that section open, but identify (if we can find sources) countries where the scholarships apply. Or perhaps we are better off not making any specific claims about where the scholarships apply, and instead leave that to separate country-specific section. - Bilby (talk) 00:46, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Proposal to rename article "Scholarships in the United States"

That would end this dispute. Almost all of the article, save one paragraph, deals with the United States. It isn't at present an article about scholarships worldwide. Someone else could write "Scholarships in Australia", or whatever country s/he has expertise in. Once these articles about other countries have been written, we could consider merging them. There is already an article on Scholarships in Korea.

Anyone object? deisenbe (talk) 00:46, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

We need a generic article on scholarships. I'm not sure if this can be reworked to provide that, how much of this needs to be reworked, or if we are better of nuking this and doing as you suggest, but in that final case it seems we would need something viable to replace it with if we did. - Bilby (talk) 01:23, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

We need an article on scholarships worldwide, but this isn't that article, and no one, after several years, has even attenpted to revise it in that direction. I honestly don't think it can be done. We need a series of articles on the scholarships of different countries. Each article has to be written by someone who speaks the language of the country. With the major industrialized countries this information is online - in the U.S. It's at http://fastweb.com - but even with Mexico abd Brazil, which I know somewhat, I doubt that all of it could be found online, much less for an exotic country like Egypt. So really to expect anyone to write more than a small part of this hypothetical article is not realistic.

A kind of a Platonic idea, the ideal article on scholarships, which may never exist.

The U.S. has by far the most complicated scholarship system in the world. Everyone agrees about this. Another argument for a separate article.

Finally I'm willing to work on it if it is Scholarships in the United States, and I don't see anyone else stepping up to the plate to do anything at all. I will not work on any other article on scholarships. And if you're going to hassle me about documentation please tell me now and I won't even start. I choose not to spend my time chasing references, save for a few instances with articles that I care a lot more than I do about this one. deisenbe (talk) 07:35, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm very uncomfortable with not having an article about scholarships in general on Wikipedia, especially as I'm not currently sure as to the amount of regional differences. Rather than move the article, which leaves us without any generic "scholarship" article, I've forked the US-specific content over to Scholarships in the United States, and left the content which seems more generic here. Clearly, both articles warrant a lot of expansion. - Bilby (talk) 14:15, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

OK. I'm not going to do anything about the Scholarship article, but I would point out that everything but three sentences deals only with the United States. Those are: the two opening sentences, and one under Local Awards. deisenbe (talk) 14:38, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

A lot is probably common to both the US and other countries, but at this stage I'm not sure how much is US specific. For example, the types of scholarships seems fair generic, except perhaps for Last Dollar, and most of the local scholarships seem suited to multiple countries. The controversy section does not seem to be US specific, although it is likely to be more present in the US. - Bilby (talk) 14:43, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

I think you're mistaken

@Bilby, I would be remiss, even though I'm not planning anything, if I did not tell you that the article Scholarships as it now stands is almost entirely about scholarships in the United States, not scholarships in other countries. It's misleading and unhelpful. deisenbe (talk)

Why? What is US specific? It seems that most of the types of scholarships, as well as most if the sources, would apply anywhere. - Bilby (talk) 15:45, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

That's exactly what you're mistaken about. deisenbe (talk) 16:08, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Fair enough. I guess I'll just have to disagree. - Bilby (talk) 16:30, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

I was trying to find the difference between fellowship and scholarship in USA, and found this article is very small and not as informative as I wished. Nonetheless, I think I can add to the discussion as I'm originally from a non-English speaking country where we have merit-based scholarships and I do not think that is strictly a US concept. We use a particular word ("bursa") to mean scholarship and then we classify them as "performance scholarship" (awarded to students with excellent results like prizes in international events like the Math Olympiad), "merit scholarship" (excellent grades in school or university) and simply "study scholarship" (to students who have a low household income -- decided based on the average income per person in a household in the last 3 months being under a certain amount & the student having at least a 7/10 GPA). Low income assistance for students with low grades is also available but that is not given through the school and is not considered a study assistance. In our case most education is publicly ran, so the laws regarding financial assistance handle grades 1-12 and undergrad studies in the same way. For us, there are other financial scholarships given to the "best students in the class". For eg, in my undergrad, participating in the Erasmus Program was decided by a group of professors in the department and given only to students with the best grades (the Erasmus Program is an EU exchange program where, for a few months, students live in a different country and study at a partner university). In the end, I think the concept of performance based awards is similar to the one in US, though the criteria for awarding it are different and can vary. Rozemarys (talk) 01:38, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

I disagree with this deletion

Revision as of 22:09, 30 July 2017 (edit) Onel5969 (talk | contribs) m (Disambiguating links to Student financial aid (intentional link to DAB) using DisamAssist.) ← Previous edit Revision as of 15:15, 31 August 2017 (edit) (undo) 170.185.31.17 (talk) (→‎Controversy: Very poorly sourced and not relevant to the article. A new article would be more appropriate.) (Tag: section blanking) Next edit → Line 50: Line 50:

• Enrichment Centres: In certain countries, enrichment centers have begun to provide scholarships.

• Enrichment Centres: In certain countries, enrichment centers have begun to provide scholarships.

• Disabilities: Students with disabilities may be able to apply for awards intended for people with disabilities. Those scholarships may be intended for disabled students in general, or in relation to a specific disability.

• Disabilities: Students with disabilities may be able to apply for awards intended for people with disabilities. Those scholarships may be intended for disabled students in general, or in relation to a specific disability.

− −

References

Controversy

− It has become more prevalent today that scholarships are misconceived to have a discriminatory quality to them. For example, as demonstrated by student-specific scholarships, minorities are thought to have a priority over Caucasian students when it comes to receiving these scholarships.

− − These beliefs are known to come from college students themselves who have been affected by their failures at obtaining adequate financial aid. Mark Kantrowitz, author of "Secrets to Winning a Scholarship", explains that the average family tends to overestimate its student's eligibility for merit-based awards and underestimate its eligibility for need-based awards. In turn, the most persistent target of this disapproval tends to be high-profile, minority-based scholarships.

− − Most scholarships are based on merit or talent, without considering economic need or ethnicity. Since the economically privileged usually have better schools and more access to other educational resources, merit-based awards favor the economically privileged. While Caucasians account for 62% of full-time college students in America, they receive 76% of all scholarships. deisenbe (talk) 16:13, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

References

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List of notable scholarships added

I have added a list of notable scholarships. All items have their own Wikipedia page but do add more if I have missed any. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pug of the day (talk • contribs) 14:50, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

I'd actually argue that "List of notable scholarships" would be better as its own separate page. Within this page it doesn't add context to the general topic, and it serves as a big invitation for everyone to add a link to their own favorite scholarship to the list, as already happens from time to time in the "See also" section. Tdslk (talk) 02:24, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Can we remove controversies section please

This section clearly uses unsourced alt right rhetoric and far right views. The fact that there are no citations to back up this individuals outlandish claims is really quite telling. Can I take it out and replace it with an objective look on the purposes that scholarships serve in society.Pug of the day (talk) 14:56, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree. The section is hard to follow and doesn't add anything to the page. Tdslk (talk) 02:11, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

I also agree. I am not an active contributor to this article but I was surprised when I found that section. I think it is fair to argue that most scholarships are uncontroversial and there is no need for that section. If a particularly notorious case of a scholarship controversy exists, then perhaps it would require its own Wikipedia entry. Sturgman (talk) 18:00, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Done. I would welcome a section discussing relevant controversies in this article but the section that was just removed was barely sourced and clearly POV and OR. ElKevbo (talk) 22:02, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

June 17 2019:

The assistantships seem to be missing from the talk. These are types of scholarships but one has to work. I don't have time now, but could perhaps someone check on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esnascosta (talk • contribs) 18:44, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Open scholarships

The term "open scholarship" is used in mutliple biographical articles throughout Wikipedia. Does that term need to be defined here? How is an "open" scholarship more open than a "scholarship"? Also, the term "open scholarship" is also used in the context of Open Science, where it means "open access to scholarship" in the form of written research papers. Sfjohna (talk) 12:54, 11 July 2023 (UTC)