Talk:Schirach

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Primary topic

@Matthiaspaul:,

Baldur von Schirach is clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, as by far the most famous/notorious of the Schirachs.

After this, users may be looking for other members of the Schirach family, which lists all the other Schirachs. As such, I have placed a {Redirect} tag at the top of Baldur von Schirach, which links to Schirach family.

Users are not going to want to be redirected to Benedict von Schirach. Users could be looking for one of the many Schirachs not named Benedict. Frankly, there is little reason for this page to exist. Benedict Wells is not known professionally by his birth name, and has expressed his wish not to be associated with the name Schirach. Baldur and Gottlob had it only as their middle name. It is unlikely Benedict von Schirach gets much use. I will have a look at the statistics in a few days to see if it gets any use at all now that the redirect has been changed. cagliost (talk) 18:15, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While Benedict von Schirach was not a perfect target for the redirect, it was the best target among the entries we had at the time, because it was at least a disambiguation page. (The purpose of this page was not to get much traffic, but to help disambiguate the term.)

Baldur von Schirach is not the primary topic for Schirach. Today, if you hear about a von Schirach in the media, it will be Ferdinand von Schirach most of the time. However, as there are many other possible targets I changed Schirach to become a disambigution page by itself, thereby eliminating the underlying issue. This also allows it to be properly connected with entries in other language editions and thereby helps building a similar infrastructure in all of them. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 20:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I approve of you creating a disambiguation page for Schirach, since it contains Schirachs who are not part of the Schirach family.

However, I insist that Baldur von Schirach is the primary topic.

You make a reference to Ferdinand von Schirach being mentioned in the media, but this is biased, to the German media of the present day. It is not the case in English language publications, across time.

Looking at the criteria at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, Baldur von Schirach:

gets more incoming and outgoing traffic than all the other pages put together. The runners-up are Henriette, Benedict Wells, Ferdinand, and Richard
gets more pageviews than the others put together [1]
dominates Google Ngrams in English and German compared to Henriette von Schirach, Benedict Wells, Ferdinand von Schirach, and Richard von Schirach
clearly has the most long-term historical significance. Looking at Google Books, Baldur von Schirach is mentioned in many books, unlike Ferdinand von Schirach, who is merely the author of many books.
Baldur von Schirach is the only article rated "level-5 vital", and "mid-importance". The rest are un-rated or rated low-importance.

cagliost (talk) 08:36, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]