Talk:Satan's Choice Motorcycle Club

Dubious facts

The available sources indicate that this group disbanded or merged with the Hell's Angels in 2000 - 2001. The re-emergence of the group in 2017, 16 years after it ceased to exist, is dubious, and requires a reliable source for verification. The creation of a new group using this same name should not be included in this article unless the groups can be verified to be linked (same membership / leadership, etc.). WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 20:21, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

References

The following comments have been copied from User talk:WikiDan61 in order to promote a single discussion in an open forum.

Im the President of the new charter that opened up you can visit us at www.satanschoice.ca email for full details and anything you like to know. Anything you like to know about the club you can get from our web site or email for details. Satan's Choice (talk) 20:42, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

@Satan's Choice: Congratulations on the creation of your new organization. As a new, legitimate organization, with a website and everything, it seems unlikely that your organization is related to the largely criminal organization that is the subject of this article. As such, the information about your new club should not be included in the article about this old, now defunct organization. If, in fact, your organization is related to the older organization, we'll need reliable sources to verify that. Your own word, or the content of your own website, is not sufficient proof. You may want to identify with the older outlaw group, but without evidence of some sort of continuity of membership or leadership (unlikely after 16 years), we'd have to label yours as a new group, and that would need to be taken up in a separate article. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 20:59, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

id be willing to show you the letter from the original president Bernie of the Choice. Along with the existing members that patched over to the Hells angels is now members of our club in an email I'd be willing to provide you with all the documentation as such if required.Satan's Choice (talk) 21:08, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Also we have trademarked the name and logoSatan's Choice (talk) 21:09, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Please note that until reliable sources can be provided that proves that 1) Satan's Choice has rebanded, and 2) this current Satan's Choice is the same one as before, I have removed the info about a current Satan's Choice MC. Please don't add it back unless proven otherwise. SkyWarrior 21:14, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

@Satan's Choice: As the organization's last verifiable status was that of a criminal organization, it is unlikely that its membership at that time would be willing to openly publish verifiable documents regarding the reformation of the organization. The types of reliable sources needed would likely be published reports in news media regarding the re-emergence of this criminal organization. If your present organization is not a criminal organization, then it is unlikely that it is the same organization that is the topic of this article, letters and trademarks notwithstanding. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 21:18, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

well it was never a criminal organization furthermore the name and logo our trademark the very fact that you imply that it's a criminal organization then and now is insulting I have the original president granting permission to relaunch this organization and as such that is what we're doing the very fact that you using our name on your website is a trademark infringement so either correct the information properly or remove it.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Satan's Choice (talk • contribs) 21:21, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

@Satan's Choice: This article has verified facts regarding the criminal activities of the Satan's Choice motorcycle club. If you choose to deny that legacy, that's on you. Also your trademark protection does not protect you from legitimate publications (such as Wikipedia) using your name when writing about you. That's not how trademarks work. And if you press that point, you'll be in violation of Wikipedia's injunction against making legal threats. (You are free to take any legal action you wish, but you will be blocked from editing while such legal actions are threatened or actually ongoing.) WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 21:29, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

we are only looking to prove who and what we are and have our info updated thats all nothing more like i said we have original members running it and would like to have the inflation reflect that after all this is there life legacy it didn't end in 2001 it's continuing today — Preceding unsigned comment added by Satan's Choice (talk • contribs) 21:32, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

@Satan's Choice: I'm sorry, I don't know how to make this any clearer to you. We cannot just accept your word for this. We need reliable sources (not your club's website, not letters, but actual reports published in publicly available media) to verify your claims. The reliable sources that do exist indicate that this organization ceased to exist in 2001. You'll need sources equally reliable to refute that claim. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 21:38, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Well why don't you come to Canada and dispute that fact to us face-to-face!!

Choice is not close and you are going to look like you publish fake info that's your Choice !! You have a good day ! Hope the weather nice in warren USA;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Satan's Choice (talk • contribs) 21:41, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Congratulations. You've succeeded in making it sound as if you are an ongoing criminal organization.John from Idegon (talk) 04:42, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Satan's Choice MC

Would like to have the stuff updated on the site in the way of the club ...we are not reopening it and have old members on board with us and would like the info to relax this Satan's Choice (talk) 07:48, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

• Your username is in violation of policy. Information on what to do about this is on your talk page.
• You obviously have a conflict of interest. Information on what to do about this is on your talk page.
• If you want changes made to the article, please make an edit request (information on how to do this can be found by following the links in the information about conflict of interest on your talk page).
• Please realize that nothing will be changed unless you can provide reliable published sources for the changes you want. Except for the most mundane of information, these sources must be independent of the organization. Thanks, Satan's Choice. John from Idegon (talk) 08:27, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Looks like this one needs some clean up, too

I was disappointed to see how poorly some of these MC articles have been maintained over the last few years (I've been absent for a while; no comment as to why).

I'd like to thank all the responsible editors who have done their best to keep unverifiable information out of these articles, and, frankly, to keep all the Fudd-like wandom wankers, as well as the tough guy posers, from trashing the history. I've just finished reading a biography, of sorts, of Bernie, and will go through this article in detail within the next few days to see how it lines up with all the available (credible) source material on my (very large) biker bookshelf.

In the interim, a shout out to all you WANKERS doing bullshit edits from random IP addresses, and you POSERS trying to sound tough by claiming to be modern members of historical organizations that were merged with others, or disbanded decades ago. Garth of the Forest (talk) 06:57, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

So I just read the article in detail, and will dial this back a bit. THANK YOU, fellow editors - you've done a good job of plucking most of the weeds from the garden, and tilling the soil. The article gives a nice overview of the history of the club, but is missing a few sources which I will add later as time permits. I think we need to add in some information about the Port Hope 8, as well as that rat Mother McEwen, who lined the club up with the Outlaws while Bernie was in jail. More detail needed on the massive HA patchover in 2000.

I also think a bit of the chronology is wrong; but overall, this article gives a good snapshot. My first impression was poorer than warranted, because the info box looks lame, maybe due to the fact that we are missing a picture, which I will add soon! I'll also add some more content from Conspiracy of Brothers: The Murder of Bill Matiyek, which covers the Port Hope travesty of justice, as well as relevant content from Lorne Campbell biography. Until then, cheers, mates! Do try to keep the rubber between you and the road! Garth of the Forest (talk) 07:23, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Well done, folks!

I've come back after an extended absence from editing Wikipedia to have a look at this article over three years after my last comment. The work done since then has been WORLD CLASS (and - none of it by me - thanks everyone for doing all the things I indicated that I wanted to see done but never got around to doing myself).

This article is now a shining example of the power of teamwork and collaboration on this platform! From its earliest beginning as the little stub article I started, the rest of you have risen to the occasion and made it a truly world class article, complete with extensive and well-sourced historical details, and an extensive list of credible source material. Great job, everyone! Keep up the fabulous work!

Garth of the Forest (talk) 17:54, 19 February 2023 (UTC)