Talk:San Sebastián International Film Festival/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
I think we should change the name of the article: the official English name, and the most popular, is San Sebastian International Film Festival. In google, for example, it is the most popular name (516 vs. 50.700). Generalpoteito 13:35, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- Support: With redirects, there is no harm, no foul. — WiseKwai 14:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, redirects solve in part the problem. But I think it's also necessary to change the name. Redirections are very important; but the most important element is the title of the article. It is for that that articles can be moved. Generalpoteito 14:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: Just to make it clear, I support the move being proposed. The existing name would become a redirect, and no internal Wikipedia links would be harmed. — WiseKwai 16:20, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- (OK, Wise, sorry, I had not understood you, my English is very bad...) Generalpoteito 12:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: Just to make it clear, I support the move being proposed. The existing name would become a redirect, and no internal Wikipedia links would be harmed. — WiseKwai 16:20, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, redirects solve in part the problem. But I think it's also necessary to change the name. Redirections are very important; but the most important element is the title of the article. It is for that that articles can be moved. Generalpoteito 14:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose As the usage of Donostia grows in English, I think that we should stick to the official name as stated on the website. "San Sebastián Film Festival" is a short form.--Húsönd 00:03, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- Plus, the proposed name is lacking the accent on the second a of Sebastián.--Húsönd 01:36, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- The Festival always uses, in English, the name San Sebastian International Film Festival (and San Sebastian without accent). You can see that in the web page. For example: "38 films to form the Cold Fever-The New Nordic cinema retrospective at San Sebastian Film Festival", "David Cronenberg says he is “delighted” to participate in the forthcoming San Sebastian International Film Festival", "Spanish directors Iciar Bollain and Gracia Querejeta will compete in the Official Selection of the San Sebastian International Film Festival" or "Official presentation of the 55th Edition of the San Sebastian Film Festival". In the world of cinema it is the popular name. Also the most popular name in Google. In Spanish wikipedia, we have just changed the name to Festival Internacional de Cine de San Sebastián, without Donostia, which is used only in Basque. The article of the city in English wikipedia, for example, is San Sebastián, and not Donostia. I think there are many reasons to change the name and to explain in the article that the official name of the city is Donostia-San Sebastian. Generalpoteito 13:13, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- That is not true. The official website refers to the festival as "Donostia-San Sebastián International Film Festival" on the top of its English page, despite shortening to "San Sebastián International Film Festival" on most occasions for simplicity. It's a short form as valid as "Donostia International Film Festival" actually. Naturally the article on the Spanish Wikipedia mentions just "San Sebastián" as that's the Spanish name for the city. The Basque Wikipedia [1], in turn, has a complete absence of "San Sebástian". Still no comments on the lack of accent on the proposed name.--Húsönd 00:48, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- At first, what is not true is that the festival uses, in English, the accent in San Sebastian. The official website, which is going to be updated shortly, is the only place that the festival uses the name Donostia-San Sebastian. In fact, this year the festival has changed his corporative image, and now it uses only San Sebastián in Spanish and Donostia in the basque version. In English always uses San Sebastian. You can see that in all of the press releases of the festival in English. And, for example, in the show of inauguration, the presenter always uses the name San Sebastian International Film Festival (San Sebastian pronounced in English, without Spanish accent). Generalpoteito 11:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- That is not true. The official website refers to the festival as "Donostia-San Sebastián International Film Festival" on the top of its English page, despite shortening to "San Sebastián International Film Festival" on most occasions for simplicity. It's a short form as valid as "Donostia International Film Festival" actually. Naturally the article on the Spanish Wikipedia mentions just "San Sebastián" as that's the Spanish name for the city. The Basque Wikipedia [1], in turn, has a complete absence of "San Sebástian". Still no comments on the lack of accent on the proposed name.--Húsönd 00:48, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- The Festival always uses, in English, the name San Sebastian International Film Festival (and San Sebastian without accent). You can see that in the web page. For example: "38 films to form the Cold Fever-The New Nordic cinema retrospective at San Sebastian Film Festival", "David Cronenberg says he is “delighted” to participate in the forthcoming San Sebastian International Film Festival", "Spanish directors Iciar Bollain and Gracia Querejeta will compete in the Official Selection of the San Sebastian International Film Festival" or "Official presentation of the 55th Edition of the San Sebastian Film Festival". In the world of cinema it is the popular name. Also the most popular name in Google. In Spanish wikipedia, we have just changed the name to Festival Internacional de Cine de San Sebastián, without Donostia, which is used only in Basque. The article of the city in English wikipedia, for example, is San Sebastián, and not Donostia. I think there are many reasons to change the name and to explain in the article that the official name of the city is Donostia-San Sebastian. Generalpoteito 13:13, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 08:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Requested move (october 2007)
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was move to San Sebastián International Film Festival as a compromise between common name, accuracy of the diacritic, and general avoidance to double naming in the WP. Duja►
The festival officially only uses the name San Sebastian International Film Festival in English, San Sebastian without accent and without Donostia. Since this year 2007 the festival does not use the official name of San Sebastián (Donostia-San Sebastián), not in Basque nor in Spanish (in Spanish Festival de San Sebastián and in Basque Donostia Zinemaldia, see www.sansebastianfestival.com). The reason is that the most known and internationally known name of the city is San Sebastián or San Sebastian. Generalpoteito 20:49, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
- Support. The English official website, which does support diacritics, does not use the accent or the double name for the festival. English usage concurs. — AjaxSmack 05:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
- Also secondary support a move to San Sebastián International Film Festival if objection is only to the diacritic but prefer the proposal above. — AjaxSmack 19:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose for the same reasons as the above closed survey. The lack of accent in "Sebastián" in the English official website blatantly demonstrates the poor concern for accuracy the organization/translator/webmaster gave to the matter. Inaccuracies such as that have (or should have) no place on Wikipedia.--Húsönd 15:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- I agree on one level but it is also recognized generally and at Wikipedia that personal or proprietary endeavours have some discretion over self-referential spellings. (e.g, no one would propose moving Tha Dogg Pound to The Dog Pound). Furthermore, there have been arguments by some at Talk:San Sebastián that "San Sebastian" sans acute accent is English usage. The festival website's use of diacritics in other personal names and in the link to Donostia-San Sebastián city info[2] would seem to support this rather than "poor concern for accuracy." Nonetheless, would you support a move to San Sebastián International Film Festival? — AjaxSmack 19:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- I still prefer the "Donostia" inclusion as I believe that "Donostia" is becoming more and more widely used among English speakers (and locals too, as the Basque language is quickly recovering in the Gipuzkoa area). "San Sebastián" appears alone less and less frequently these days, Donostia is often attached. I believe that the organization of this festival failed to understand that many English speakers now prefer to call this city "Donostia" and opted instead for the still more commonly used "San Sebastián". Their translation however does certainly not affect the name of the city, and thus should not affect this article. The city is also named Donostia (fact), and Donostia is used among some English speakers (fact). All requirements are present to establish the "common usage" and rightfulness of "Donostia". Still, if this article is in the end to be moved anyway, then by all means yes, I would support moving to "San Sebastián International Film Festival" (with the accent). Húsönd 23:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hello, Husond. I am from San Sebastian and I speak Basque, but I think that Donostia name is not going to become famous internationally. It seems that you wish to maintain the name Donostia to impel it from Wikipedia. But in an encyclopedia I think we have to reflect the reality: I think that we should change the name to the name proposed and maintain the explanation that Donostia-San Sebastián is the official name of the city. If you prefer that name, I agree with moving the article to San Sebastián International Film Festival, but I also prefer the form San Sebastian International Film Festival. Generalpoteito 14:58, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
- I still prefer the "Donostia" inclusion as I believe that "Donostia" is becoming more and more widely used among English speakers (and locals too, as the Basque language is quickly recovering in the Gipuzkoa area). "San Sebastián" appears alone less and less frequently these days, Donostia is often attached. I believe that the organization of this festival failed to understand that many English speakers now prefer to call this city "Donostia" and opted instead for the still more commonly used "San Sebastián". Their translation however does certainly not affect the name of the city, and thus should not affect this article. The city is also named Donostia (fact), and Donostia is used among some English speakers (fact). All requirements are present to establish the "common usage" and rightfulness of "Donostia". Still, if this article is in the end to be moved anyway, then by all means yes, I would support moving to "San Sebastián International Film Festival" (with the accent). Húsönd 23:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- I agree on one level but it is also recognized generally and at Wikipedia that personal or proprietary endeavours have some discretion over self-referential spellings. (e.g, no one would propose moving Tha Dogg Pound to The Dog Pound). Furthermore, there have been arguments by some at Talk:San Sebastián that "San Sebastian" sans acute accent is English usage. The festival website's use of diacritics in other personal names and in the link to Donostia-San Sebastián city info[2] would seem to support this rather than "poor concern for accuracy." Nonetheless, would you support a move to San Sebastián International Film Festival? — AjaxSmack 19:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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