Talk:San Fernando Valley/Archives/2021

Nickname

The nickname for the SFV is “The Valley.” I’m not understanding why a user is trying to edit the page to say “the Valley”. This makes the page look like the nickname for the SFV is “Valley”, but the nickname is indeed “The Valley.”. Please explain your reasoning. Greeis6 (talk) 04:07, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Rather than being a nickname, the Valley is a short form of the Valley of San Fernando, just like the City is a short form of the City of London. Toponymic nicknames, too, are written without capitalizing the first letter of the definite article, e.g. the City of London is also colloquially known as the Square Mile. 92.100.47.168 (talk) 05:52, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

While i understand your perspective, in Los Angeles “The Valley” is actually used as a nickname for the San Fernando Valley. Hence why the San Gabriel Valley is not referred to as “The Valley.” That nickname, in its entirety, is solely used for the SFV, it’s not a shortened version of it. Also, please use “Independant cities” sections of this talk page to discuss Calabasas. Thanks Greeis6 (talk) 13:39, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

It is written as the Valley in authoritative print publications (official documents, books, large magazines) perused by highly skilled proofreaders. 178.66.148.152 (talk) 14:33, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

In a nickname sense, if you write “the Valley” it looks like you’re saying that the nickname is only “Valley.” Writing & bolding “The Valley” shows that “The” is included in the nickname. This is how the page was originally written, let’s wait for another user’s input before making this edit. Greeis6 (talk) 14:37, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

No, let's wait for you to provide superauthoritative sources before reverting the current authoritatively sourced version. 178.66.148.152 (talk) 15:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

You are not being very civil in your edits. Just because you think you’re right, doesn’t mean the page should be written that way. I have not reverted your other edits, only the ones in regards to the nickname. Again, since I disagree with your edits, the civil way to handle the matter is to leave the page as it was originally written (“The Valley”), until an admin gives input. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility Greeis6 (talk) 15:29, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

@Greeis6: Please provide sources showing that "The" is capitalized in common usage. A quick look at the references suggest that it should be lowercase—including the source right after the nickname! —C.Fred (talk) 18:14, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

I have also escalated this to a WikiProject to get broader input. —C.Fred (talk) 18:24, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

@C.Fred: https://www.discoverlosangeles.com/visit/hidden-gems-in-the-san-fernando-valley

If “The” isn’t capital, that implies that the nickname is just “Valley”. He’s also removing the bold from the word “The” in “The Valley”, which further makes it looks like it’s just a called “Valley”. For example, in “the City of San Fernando” it is just referred to as “City of San Fernando.” The article is not part of the name, therefore, should not be bold or capital. However, in the case with “The Valley”, the article is actually part of the name, therefore, it should be written as “The Valley”. Also, other valleys in the Los Angeles area, including the San Gabriel Valley and Santa Clarita Valley, are not referred to as “The Valley”, since this nickname is solely for the San Fernando Valley. Greeis6 (talk) 18:25, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Oh FFS - is this going to be another lame "The Beatles/the Beatles" dispute, with edit-warring and horrendously disproportionate nastiness? Everybody needs to take a step back. Acroterion (talk) 18:51, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

@Acroterion: It’s not that big of a deal whether or not it’s capital, but I think we can all agree that “the” should be in bold, since that shows that ‘’’the valley’’’ (in its entirety) is another name for ‘’’San Fernando Valley’’’. I don’t want to edit war, I want to reach consensus. And in regards to Calabasas, many many months ago when this page was edited, we had already discussed and agreed on removing Calabasas, Hidden Hills, and Glendale from this page. The map located right beside the “independent cities” section doesn’t highlight Calabasas at all, and a photo of Calabasas clearly shows it is in mountains and not within the valley. Greeis6 (talk) 19:18, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Than don't edit-war. It's your choice. We have noticeboards for disruptive behavior and for disputes of this kind. Acroterion (talk) 19:27, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

I've looked at some recent examples, and "the Valley" is what I've found. Do it yourself. Start here: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-16/valley-secession-jeff-brain-clouthub-anti-twitter There are other examples, too. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:22, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

You don't see "pitching The Valley cityhood," you see "pitching Valley cityhood." BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:27, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

@BeenAroundAWhile: Okay, then let's agree on lowercasing "the". Can we all agree on keeping "the Valley" in bold? Greeis6 (talk) 22:36, 23 December 2021 (UTC)