Talk:Saad el-Shazly

Removal of my edit

So I edit the page, add my sources, which is Shazly himslef !, and correct the farce of a mistake of saying that Shazly retreated without a single loss of equipment when Shazly himself says he lost 80% of his tanks, and the editor deletes it and says "relatively few losses". Looks like someone is just trying to make a victory out of anything in the humiliated 1967 defeat of Egypt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.58.193.99 (talk) 22:26, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Copied paragraph

There is a paragraph which is copied from here.Tushyk (talk) 09:46, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there infringement from that site. I tracked down at least one of the infringing edits. [1] was copied from the 2005 version of a page on that site. Unfortunately, that edit was way back in May 2006. Superm401 - Talk 21:14, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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War Crimes

This needs a discussion of war crimes. Gen. Shazly issued an order in pamphlet form that suggested killing surrendering IDF soldiers. -G (talk) 19:21, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

That needs sources, not blanket statements. nableezy - 19:23, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Contrary sources on his Sinai war record

I’ve been reading through Kenneth Pollack’s book Arabs at War, whose chapter on the 1967 war refers to Shazly in less than flattering fashion.

Lieutenant General Sa'd ad-Din Shazli, commanding an armored division-task force southwest of Abu Ageilah, was among the senior officers who fled immediately upon hearing of the retreat. His force was large, intact, and at that point the most powerful Egyptian concentration in the Sinai. However, rather than try to conduct a fighting withdrawal to try to get their armored vehicles and other weaponry out of the Sinai, the unit's junior officers simply set off for the canal without any planning, coordination, or rear guards. Many of Shazli's subordinates abandoned their equipment altogether and tried to make it back to the Suez on foot.

And later: It is noteworthy that no one lower in the chain of command stepped in and took it upon himself to direct the defense of the Sinai. In particular, Shazli's armored task force had the mission of supporting Abu Ageilah, but without explicit orders from GHQ, General Shazli did not lift a finger to help the 2nd Infantry Division fighting for its life there.

This is totally opposite of the picture painted in the Wiki article, where Shazly was a distinguished and heroic commander who oversaw a successful and well-organized withdrawal.

What do we make of this? Our source for the page’s narrative is a War History Online article by a guest author, who himself cites no sources. Pollack, on the other hand, is a well-established military analyst. Pollack’s personal and professional backgrounds may of course introduce a certain bias into his work, and his version of events does raise some questions about how Shazly ended up well-regarded and promoted after the war (was he just a really good liar who fabricated a success story, or was there actually something to it?).

I’m not going to make any edits to the article myself, but this discrepancy ought to be investigated further. 76.30.160.33 (talk) 00:46, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Further material from the Pollack book:

Sadat appointed Lt. Gen. Sa'd ad-Din Shazli as armed forces chief of staff. While Shazli had an excellent military education and a good theoretical understanding of military operations, his service record was rather checkered: he was one of the few Egyptian officers to surrender to the Israelis while a company commander at Fallujah in 1948; he retreated ahead of the Israeli attack as a battalion commander in 1956; he did poorly in Yemen; and he was among the first senior officers to flee the Sinai in 1967, abandoning his armored division at the height of the Israeli offensive. Shazli's continued rise through the ranks appears mostly the result of his appearance and demeanor: he reportedly was a dashing, handsome paratrooper; a braggart; and enormously charismatic. Sadat picked him to be chief of staff because of Shazli's excellent rapport with Egypt's soldiery, believing he could heal the rift between Egypt's officers and enlisted personnel and would inspire Egyptian troops in the fight against Israel. Moreover, Sadat believed he could count on Isma'il Ali to watch Shazli and prevent him from becoming a problem. 76.30.160.33 (talk) 02:25, 29 May 2024 (UTC)