Talk:Ryūei-ryū

Edit war

User:Americanman08 and an ip user (71.131.16.19/76.103.50.30 both use the same edit summary: updated and corrected information relating to Tomohiro Arashiro Sensei) have been reverting each other over the description of Tomohiro Arashiro I have pointed both parties to the three revert rule. Could you please discuss this.

The two versions are

Arashiro Sensei, an Okinawan, started his training with Kenko Nakaima Sensei at age 13. In 1979, under the leadership of Sakumoto Sensei and Nakaima Sensei’s approval, Arashiro Sensei emigrated to the United States and began teaching the traditional Ryuei Ryu taught to him by Nakaima Sensei.

and

Arashiro Sensei,(An Okinawan with a very questionable Timeline regarding the (History & Lineage)of Ryuei Ryu ,claims to have been taught while as enrolled as a middle school student for a few years in Okinawa)teaches a very popular Sport based version of the art,modified simply for competitive situations only by Tsuguo Sakumoto, a former student of Kenko Nakaima.

Cleaned up these look like this:

Arashiro an Okinawan, started his training with Kenko Nakaima at age 13. In 1979, under the leadership of Sakumoto and Nakaima’s approval, Arashiro emigrated to the United States and began teaching the traditional Ryuei Ryu taught to him by Nakaima.

and this

Arashiro, (an Okinawan with a claims to have been taught while as enrolled as a middle school student for a few years in Okinawa) teaches a popular sport based version of the art, modified simply for competitive situations only by Tsuguo Sakumoto, a former student of Kenko Nakaima.

I don't know who Tomohiro Arashiro is or his history but can you please stopo reverting & provide some sources. --Nate1481(^t/_c) 16:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I am a student of Arashiro's and have been editing the page as to his personal statement relating to his karate history. The wording I have been using are a direct quote by Mr. Arashiro. Here is a reference:

http://www.ryueiryu.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6

--tanden(^t/_c) 16:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It's a start, but as it is a primary source it can only back up that that is his version of things, linage etc. are a pain to source (I know I've tried). Add in the information and sources by all means but copy & pasting information may lead to copyright problems. --Nate1481(^t/_c) 17:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

thanks for the info. I have complete approval from the owner of ryueiryu.com to use their wording. What can I do about the changes being made, they are more and more becoming an attack. I am making no claims regarding any information on the page other than information directly dealing with Tomohiro Arashiro. looking forward to your input. --Tanden (talk) 19:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the alternate version is attacking, and annoyingly invariable. I did try and clean it up, to be honest if it keeps being the same user(s) doing it you can raise it at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents --Nate1481(^t/_c) 10:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

New Section

I recommend breaking out the disputed biographies into a separate section and then into separate bio's, since they do not belong in the main history of this art; they are present day instructors and no where is it cited that either is a world officiator of this style. This new "Outside Japan" section will also allow for other contributors to post lists of present day schools and experts from other regions. Also, the constant edits are riddled with grammar and punctuation errors... let's keep the Wikipedia clean Porfirio Landeros (talk) 20:54, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Outside Japan section seems like a good idea I woudldn't suggest lists as these get drive by additons of Yekcim Esuom's Extreeem karate and independent bios to wouldn't survive See(matial arts project notability criteria) --Nate1481(^t/_c) 10:01, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

New Section

I was wondering about the build of this style, is it purely katas? I've had a look around, but I can't find anything other than history, lineage and katas... Does this system contain weapons, does it have kumite, does it have sparring? Could someone more knowledgeable than me please add some information abut the system itself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.95.67.219 (talk) 09:56, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Campbell Sensei from the USA has responded... Here is the reference: http://www.ryueiryu.blogspot.com -- GrantCampbell(^t/_c) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.89.139.42 (talk) 17:09, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Ryuei-Ryu-Kata

It would be interesting to research the Ryuei-Ryu Kata. We know Niseishi, Sanseiru, Seisan, Pachu, Heiku, Paiku, Anan from the publications of Sakumoto Sensei. But what about Anan Ni, Ohan, Paiho, Paiho Ni? Is the Anan Ni Kata relativly new? Are the Paiho Kata influeced from Go-Kenki? Are there Sanchin, Seienchin in Ryuei-Ryu too, are these Kata practiced with Sanchin-Dachi, because Sanseru and Seisan don't have Sanchin-dachi in the Ryuei-Ryu version? And finally what about Sepai, Kururunfa, Suparinpai - there are also Videos of Sakumoto Sensei teaching these Kata, aren't they Goju-Ryu Kata? Has Sakumoto brought those Kata from the Goju-Ryu Style? Can we conclude that the core Kata of Ryuei-Ryu are: Niseishi, Sanseiru, Seisan, Pachu, Heiku, Paiku, Anan, Anan Ni, Ohan, Paiho and Paiho Ni, all other Kata are additional?--Episteme111 (talk) 12:18, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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PROD sources

I recently removed a WP:PROD nomination. Think its notability is not straightforward, at the very least (although no question that the current article is not very good).

Here's some news coverage: [1][2][3] (kids are making a concerning-looking salute in the last article lol) seefooddiet (talk) 12:11, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Those don't say a whole lot, other than "this guy who won a medal started in this obscure style you never heard of".

The supposed story of origin is classic bullshido. The claims that the founder's grandfather supposedly travelled to China starting when he was 19 and studied under Ryū Ryū Ko but refused to teach publicly reads like a mashup of the biographies of Higaonna Kanryō (who in turn taught Chōjun Miyagi, the founder of Gōjū-ryū) and Kanbun Uechi, the founder of Uechi-ryū The big difference is those two directly taught dozens if not hundreds of students and their travels and careers are well documented from contemporaneous sources. The same cannot be said for Norisato Nakaima, or his son. Only his grandson, who began teaching in the middle of the 70s martial arts boom claiming secret knowledge. It really reads like a bad cliche. Couple that with being sourced to only their own website, I am exceedingly dubious.

And this is not something that would be considered a major style. Not that one can tell much about the style from this stub of an article. Where's the basic curriculum outline listing the style's kata? from what tiny bit I've been able to gather, the style uses the same kata as Uechi-ryu, which only reinforces my dubiousness as to its self-promotional story.

To be fair, it does seem pretty hard to dig up sources because the anglicization of the name of of the style is inconsistent. But with no content of note, this article is at the least in severe need of overhaul. oknazevad (talk) 21:49, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

That sounds plausible but what matters is coverage; we shouldn't analyze what is likely to be notable based on our own reasoning. Even if the things you're alleging are true, if third-party coverage is there it doesn't really matter how self-promotiony they try to be (see Wikipedia articles for various cults; they often similarly try to inflate their stories).

I think at the very least, the situation wasn't straightforward enough for a PROD. If you open a deletion discussion you may be able to get it through (I don't have much more to say than my initial comment). However, I'll note that those sources I gave are also only the first few I could find in Japanese; there seemed to be a good amount of more coverage. Remember that sources in any language are acceptable for proving notability. seefooddiet (talk) 22:01, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

True to the latter point. They need to be added to the article; though, as there's only forst-party sources. We also need to be sure they meet the WP:RS requirements. Short press blurbs tend to just report as fact what they're told by the subject (this is not limited to the martial arts). oknazevad (talk) 02:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)