Talk:Russians in Japan

Niigata Russian Village

I have given up on contacting RikuOka0222 at User talk:RikuOka0222#Russians in Japan, as there have not been any replies while this editor has continued to edit the article extensively. While I recognize that the editor is acting in good faith, the next step will need to be taking this to a venue like WP:ANI in the case of any further disruption. For the time being, the new section on the Niigata Russian Village is not really appropriate for an article about the Russian community in Japan, but in either event the section is closely paraphrasing the cited sources. It's difficult to explain in detail without reproducing the copyright problems again here, but "troubled past" / "make it look alive" / "Opened in 1993 to foster/strengthen relations between Russia and Japan" are evidence of this. I would suggest removing the section entirely since it doesn't really belong here, and we can revdel the problematic revisions as necessary. This should be taken care of quickly before the page history becomes more complicated. Dekimasuよ! 03:51, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Ukrainians and Belarusians are the two closest ethnic groups to Russians, and the country they're based on used to be part of Russia for centuries, all the way from Grand Duchy of Moscow to the Soviet Union. In addition, there really is not much to write for each individual articles about Ukrainians in Japan and Belarusians in Japan, so I think it's a good idea to write all 3 very similar ethnic groups in Japan in one article. If I receive no replies in under a month, then I would take that as a yes.RikuOka0222 (talk) 10:14, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

okay RikuOka0222 (talk) 04:00, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Since RikuOka0222 removed the section after the message above, I have cleaned up the page history. I do believe it might be appropriate to include non-copyvio information on the Niigata Russian Village in certain articles (perhaps a short summary in Agano, Niigata; it is also linked at List of defunct amusement parks#Japan). Dekimasuよ! 04:17, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Japanese people with Russian ancestry

As described in a lot of detail here, an uncited "50,000" number was added or presented as verified without an acceptable source at least 8 times by RikuOka0222 between August 2 and August 23. This type of editing requires a verifiable source once it has been questioned. This is not how editing on Wikipedia is supposed to work; I never received any reply to my messages on RikuOka0222's talk page except for this note on August 25, in which RikuOka0222 wrote "sorry for my misunderstanding about the 50000 japanese citizens with russian ancestry. When you removed that information, I thought you were just removing other people's work they have done without even checking the cite properly, so you can just delete that." I also tried to find a source with any number than this, either higher or lower, and failed to determine either where the number came from or a way to back up any number in this article.

I removed the 9th addition of the number on August 30 here, this time to the infobox, which was undone by RikuOka0222 before a self-reversion. Thus we had the number in the lede along with a citation needed tag at the beginning of September. However, on September 12 RikuOka0222 removed the citation needed tag and the reason for it, and on September 14 RikuOka0222 wrote in an edit summary Finally found the citation about the disputed numbers of Japanese people with Russian ancestry but instead of adding a citation, simply moved the following sentence into ref tags without citing any source. The 50,000 number was added to the infobox without citation again as well, marking at least the 10th readdition.

I have tried to resolve this through talk pages, edit summaries, etc. but this type of editing patten can be seen as tendentious. If anyone is able to cite a number of Japanese people with Russian ancestry, please do help out. If the number (or the fact that a citation is needed) is changed again without discussion, I will bring this issue to a relevant noticeboard. Best, Dekimasuよ! 08:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Right, to me, the citation I found was reliable enough, but I will try to find a source reliable enough to you too then. However, the editor who wrote the 50000 Japanese individuals with Russian ancestry must have found that info somewhere online, so I am eager to find the right source until I finally have found one. In fact, I already have found the right source just now, but it didn't seem like you were agreeing with that. Moreover, the reason why you might've not trusted the source is because I couldn't paste the link to "cite, so I just pasted in "cite what the source have said. RikuOka0222 (talk) 08:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

What source have you found? We do not know what source that may be, whether via a pasted link or any other information. I have not rejected any source that said anything about 50,000 descendants; the only source I removed was the genetic one from August (this article) which makes no claim about any number of Russian descendants in Japan. Note also that you were the first and only editor to add the "50,000" number to this page, beginning in this edit on August 2. Before that there was no 50,000 number, unless you found it somewhere far back in the page history. Dekimasuよ! 09:13, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay then, until we find the right source, delete the info about the number 50,000. I now realised that when I was checking through Russians in Japan in different languages to gather up more information, I found out that there were 50,000 Japanese nationals with Russian heritage from the Chinese version without any citation. In fact, I just thought that that one single citation(this article) in the whole entire article was the citation for the 50,000 number, since I thought there must be a citation for the 50,000 number. However, later that is when I found out that the citation didn't mention the 50,000 number. RikuOka0222 (talk) 13:12, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I feel bad to say this, but I'm not really sure about the source I found. Well, that source didn't even look very reliable, so my simple answer is no. RikuOka0222 (talk) 13:13, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Would it be appropriate to count the numbers of Ukrainians and Belarusians in Japan?

Ukrainians and Belarusians are the two closest ethnic groups to Russians, and the country they're based on used to be part of Russia for centuries, all the way from Grand Duchy of Moscow to the Soviet Union. In addition, there really is not much to write for each individual articles about Ukrainians in Japan and Belarusians in Japan, so I think it's a good idea to write all 3 very similar ethnic groups in Japan in one article. If I receive no replies in under a month, then I would take that as a yes.RikuOka0222 (talk) 10:14, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

No, if this criteria is based on your own synthesis of the topics, then it is not appropriate. It is also not appropriate to wait a few weeks and then restart reversions of the same material that has been disputed previously. For example, if you want to talk about adding flags to the inbox again, please explain why MOS:INFOBOXFLAG does not apply here, since it has been mentioned in removals by multiple editors. I think you can understand why many readers and editors would object to the addition of a Russian flag to this article at the same time you are asking about treating Russians and Ukrainians as a single group. Dekimasuよ! 01:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

If you want to make a separate article about Ukrainians in Japan, there are lots of contemporary sources since Japan, which is traditionally a country that does not accept refugees, decided to permit entry to a significant number of Ukrainians in the last few years. Examples from all of the major Japanese newspapers: Asahi Shimbun, Mainichi Shimbun, Nikkei Shimbun, Yomiuri Shimbun, much more available. Dekimasuよ! 02:02, 19 October 2024 (UTC)