Talk:Russian language

"Inter ethnic language"

I have to remove some countries from the infobox, because interethnic has not any official status also the sources based on some analyses, nothing worthy. Also defunct organization should be removed as well. Beshogur (talk) 10:22, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

You've misunderstood very gravely what "interethnic" is used for. It makes no claims about an official language status. If it did, it would be listed under the language section "Official languages". Interethnic language is a language that, de jure or de facto, has been used in the country between ethnic groups. Hence the name: inter (between) ethnic (ethnic group). In any case sourced content must be talked about before removal, you cannot just remove sourced data on Wikipedia and add justification post-hoc. Lamensi (talk) 05:46, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

No claims about an official status? This is a reason to remove it from the infobox. So let's put English on every country's "inter ethnic language" section. Did you check both countries constitution? Russian is already listed as minority language in Uzbekistan, no reason to add this again. In Turkmenistan, Russian has no single official status. Also please bring English sources. Those Russian sources doesn't seem official. Beshogur (talk) 10:15, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

English sources are not necessary for a valid citation. I realise Russian has no official status in Turkmenistan. That's why it's marked interethnic language, not official, notedly. Further, if you want to debate a source, you do it **before** removal, not **after**. Page stays as is while talk can be opened about validity of source. --Lamensi (talk) 10:42, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

• First of all, Russian is not official language in Russia. Its status is called "state language", the highest level in Russia and Belarus (+ non-UN members states). List of territorial entities where Russian is an official language is not quite correct. Also I agree that defunct organization should be moved from the infobox to text of the article. TarzanASG (talk) 15:18, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I suggest the following and without flags:

• nationwide status
  • state language status [show/hide]
    • Russia
    • Belarus
    • non-UN member states (or without non-UN member states in the infoxbox)
      • South Ossetia
      • Donetsk People's Republic
      • Luhansk People's Republic
      • Transnistria (literally Russian has "status of official language" but there is no "state language" in the country, i.e. this is the highest level)
  • official language status or similar nationwide status defined by constitution (i.e. the second level after "state language") [show/hide]
    • Kazakhstan
    • Kyrgyzstan
    • Tajikistan (nationwide status of "language of inter-ethnic communication" defined by constitution)
    • non-UN member states (or without non-UN member states in the infoxbox)
      • Abkhazia
  • any lower nationwide status [show/hide]
    • Uzbekistan (Russian is used in notary institutions and registry offices, but this is nationwide status)
• any status in dependencies or regions [show/hide]
  • Gagauzia and Transnistria autonomous territorial unit (Moldova)
  • 8 communes (Romania)
  • Autonomous Republic of Crimea (Ukraine)
• Recognised minority language [show/hide]
  • nationwide status by constitution or the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages
    • Ukraine (by constitution and by the European Charter)
    • Armenia
    • Poland
    • Romania
  • any lower level

TarzanASG (talk) 17:22, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

constitution of the republic of kazakhstan declares "The state language of the Republic of Kazakhstan shall be the Kazakh language." and "In state organisations and local self-government bodies, the Russian language shall be officially used on an equal footing with the Kazakh language.",but does not declare the Russian language to be a state language," citizen of the Republic by birth, at least forty years old, fluent in the state language, a resident of Kazakhstan for fifteen years and a holder of higher education may be elected President of the Republic of Kazakhstan",knowing kazakh language is a required thing to be the kazakh president,russian is not,

[1]

The Constitution of the Kyrgyz Republic declares the Kyrgyz language to be the state language,and declares russian to be the official language,Kyrgyz Language is a requirement to become the President,Russian is not

[2]

the constitution of tajikistan or the republic of tajikistan declares "The State language of Tajikistan is the Tajik language."and "Russian is the language of communication between the nationalities.",courts are required to use tajik by default unless there is a different majority language in the area,and the state language is also a requirenement for being president,the language of communication between nationalities is not,

[3]

the constitution of the republic of belarus declares"The official language of the Republic of Belarus shall be Belarusian and Russian."

[4]

the constitution of the russian federation declares "The Russian language shall be a state language on the whole territory of the Russian Federation."

[5]

In Conclusion,in the infobox only the Kyrgyz Republic and the Republic of Belarus actually have declared russian as an "Official"language,all the other ones do not UnsungHistory (talk) 23:00, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Spurious dialect

Some anonymous editors keep trying to reinsert an alleged "Russo-malay"/"Russonesian" language on this page as well as the "List of pidgins, creoles, mixed languages and cants based on Indo-European languages" page. It was unsourced , so I googled it and found absolutely nothing about this alleged pidgin, so I deleted it, but someone put it back. Checking this page's history it had already been deleted by another named user before being re-inserted by an anonymous user (probably the same one). I'm posting here rather than on that page because this will probably get more responses. -MToumbola (talk) 11:48, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Mutual intelligibility

I removed the sentence regarding MI with Ukrainian and Belarusian from the intro as it wasn't backed by any source in the article. I tried to find recent scholar articles on the subject but could not, would be great to add some. A455bcd9 (talk) 17:35, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Hmm, there must be tons of references for that! not sure why you need recent scholar articles for a topic that is not new? google books ... 109.122.68.162 (talk) 12:23, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Mongolia

"In 2005, Russian was the most widely taught foreign language in Mongolia, and was compulsory in Year 7 onward as a second foreign language in 2006." While true, this is incomplete and maybe misleading. Since at least 2016 (Maybe even a decade earlier), Russian has been supplanted by English. A short cited note to this effect would help the article. Kdammers (talk) 18:04, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• GeographicalExtentOfRussianLanguage.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:23, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

"post-Soviet"

I have removed the term "post-Soviet" from the lede of this article, because it is redundant and not particularly informative: we don't say that English is spoken across the "post-British" world, because it creates a false equivalence between countries with distinct histories, of which the colonial period is only one part. At any rate, Russian gained influence in many of the countries listed _long_ before the Soviet Union was created – imo it is much better just to list the countries in question and deal with their similarities/differences in more detail elsewhere. if anyone disagrees/has comments, I'd be interested to hear. Akakievich (talk) 17:05, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

"lingua franca"

I'm also wondering about the usage of the term "lingua franca" in the lede – I think it's misleading because for many L1 Russian speakers in, for example, Ukraine, Russian is a domestic language (and in fact the national language is more associated with education and public life). Saying categorically that Russian is used as a "lingua franca" in these countries could be misleading, but I am reticent to remove the phrase entirely because it's important to convey that for some people in some post-Soviet contexts, Russian does function as a lingua franca. Maybe we should remove the "lingua franca" terminology from the existing sentence and add an additional one to explain this fact? imo the fact that Russian sees this kind of usage is significant enough to warrant sufficient explanation in the lede. Would appreciate opinions. Akakievich (talk) 17:08, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Banned language

It is important to list countries where Russian language is banned - Ukraine, European Union, Norway, UK, Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A45E:72A7:1:DABB:C1FF:FEAC:7283 (talk) 17:07, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Russian is not banned in any of those countries (also, EU is not a country). — Phazd (talk|contribs) 02:16, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Russian officially banned in Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finnland. It's criminal offence to use it iun these countries with different penalties (for example, in Estonia - fine, and in repeating use up to 3 years of jail). In Estonia and Latvia there is a special language policy which enforce ban on Russian language.

https://www.amnesty.org/es/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/eur510012007en.pdf 2A02:A45E:72A7:1:DABB:C1FF:FEAC:7283 (talk) 21:09, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

That's an Amnesty International page from 2007, 17 years ago; things may have changed since then. It also doesn't mention the language being totally banned. The Riigi Teataja site has an English translation of a Language Act from 2011 which specifies that "Everyone has the right to access public administration in the Estonian language in oral or written form (hereinafter together administration) in state agencies, including the foreign representation of Estonia, local government authorities, at the notaries, bailiffs and sworn translators and their bureaus, cultural autonomy bodies and other agencies, companies, non-profit associations and foundations registered in Estonia.", so state agencies can't refuse to give you information in Estonian (e.g., in a government office, somebody has to speak Estonian), and they also offer a "Right to use language of national minority" with local governments

However, the UN has a 2023 report on a new law that may limit "language and cultural studies” for minority children whose mother tongue or native language is not Estonian. But I see nothing that would impose a fine for saying "Добрый день" to a friend on the street, or put you in prison if you're caught doing it several times after being fined.

And no citations are given for any of those other countries treating the mere use of Russian at all being a criminal offense. Guy Harris (talk) 09:55, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Oh yes, they changed allright - both Estonia and Latvia banned any education in Russian, including private one and banned any communication in Russian, including private life. 2A02:A45E:72A7:1:DABB:C1FF:FEAC:7283 (talk) 16:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/08/estonia-new-law-banning-mother-tongue-education-minorities-may-violate-human 2A02:A45E:72A7:1:DABB:C1FF:FEAC:7283 (talk) 16:37, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

That UN document - which I'm quite aware of, given that I explicitly mentioned it, giving the URL, in the comment to which you're replying - says nothing whatsoever about "[banning] any communication in Russian, including private life", only about education. But that's exactly what I said in the comment to which you're replying. If you want to convince people that greeting your friend with "Добрый день" will get you fined, you're going to have to find a reference for that; replaying that UN report is not sufficient.

It may be that the existence of the law encourages some people to take matters in their own hands, outside the law, if they hear people talking in Russian on the street, but that's another matter. That's not an indication that the law itself empowers the police to arrest people for talking in Russian on the street. Guy Harris (talk) 20:16, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@2A02:A45E:72A7:1:DABB:C1FF:FEAC:7283 Please read this source,there is no evidence of russian bieng banned in Canada UnsungHistory (talk) 19:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Categorization request

This discussion has been closed but implementation is still pending. Would someone be willing to remove articles from the category about territories where Russian is not an official language? Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:15, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

The map of the geographic distribution of the Russian language

@Daniel Case:, please, explain to me why you reverted my edit. The current map is very wrong in a number of places. For example, in Ukraine. Idioma ruso.PNG is much more accurate. Ґайдечахв74Лпадаоо (talk) 20:59, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Whoops, pinged the wrong person. @Tropicalkitty:. Ґайдечахв74Лпадаоо (talk) 21:03, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Generally, the English name should be used. Tropicalkitty (talk) 21:07, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Well still. The current map is very inaccurate about Ukraine, a country with the second-largest population of Russian-speakers after Russia itself. Either the current map needs fixing or it should be replaced with a different one that is more accurate. Ґайдечахв74Лпадаоо (talk) 21:10, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

By the way, that map is already in use on Slavic languages #Detailed list. Ґайдечахв74Лпадаоо (talk) 21:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

I have restored that image. If anyone disagrees, feel free to remove it. I clarified the error. Tropicalkitty (talk) 21:37, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Also yes, even the Idioma ruso.PNG map is still wrong in a number of places too. Russian is not the majority language in all of Budjak, only in the northwestern part of it and in the city of Izmail. Ґайдечахв74Лпадаоо (talk) 21:07, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Are you sure this is the best image for the cover of this article?

I have nothing against the guy shown in this article who can speak Russian and Hebrew, but I see that other languages (German, English, Greek) have maps of where this language is spoken in the world shown on the cover image. I don't think it is best to have a person on the cover image of a language article and this should be changed to a map of where Russian is spoken. KeymasterOne (talk) 15:16, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Russian's "retroflex" fricatives, a.k.a. apical postalveolar fricatives

Not a regular contributor to wikipedia, so bear with me if I've formatted or written something incorrectly. Anyways, there's this thing I've learnt recently: despite popular belief, Russian retroflex fricatives aren't exactly retroflex. In several linguistic papers they have been notated as simply postalveolar fricatives, ʃ and ʒ, and according to preivous researches (may not be able to find them right now, but hear me out) the PoA for Russian's fricatives isn't really different from other slavic languages, where they are documented as ʃ and ʒ. Besides, the sound of the Russian supposed retroflexes don't seem to match with the retroflexes of other languages: it sounds less "bunched up", less subapical and not as retracted. So here's my question: shouldn't ʂ and ʐ instead be written in the phonemic table as ʃ and ʒ (with clarification right below) or ʃ̺ and ʒ̺? If not, then why? Floot727 (talk) 09:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2024

Please set to |label=none for {{Lang-ru}} parameter, because it's already linked. Also remove flags from the infobox per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG. 222.108.214.141 (talk) 07:21, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

 Already done ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 00:37, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2024

Please remove flags from the infobox per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG, unlike other language infoboxes does not have flags. 45.174.57.22 (talk) 22:44, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't see any flags at the moment. Myrealnamm (💬pros · 📜cons) 22:56, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

See this edit (Special:Diff/1100921711), this is why removing flags from the infobox. 45.174.57.22 (talk) 23:07, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: There are no flags in the infobox, you stated that they were removed in 2022. If you're referring to a different article, submit the edit request onto that article, not here. Thank you. Myrealnamm (💬pros · 📜cons) 23:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

WHY THE MAP ISN'T ACCURATE

Fist of all, the map shows ALL OF BELARUS as speaking russian, when the rural areas in Western Belarus still speak it as majority. Also claims that all of the Donbas and Azov Coastal regions speak russian, when it's only concentrated in a few cities according to census data. It also shows tuva as being mostly speaking Russian, when a majority of Tuvans as of the 2010 census (the 2021 census had glaring issues with rural areas) speak Tuvan.

Overall the main goal is to make the russian language look more widespread than it actually is.

⛿ WeaponizingArchitecture | yell at me 12:54, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

cite note 23 and 24

cite note 23 is not a citation at all it is just a note and should not be presented as a citation,meanwhile cite note 24 cites a wikipedia article which is discouraged Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia#:~:text=Anyone in the world can,shouldn't be citing Wikipedia. UnsungHistory (talk) 15:12, 29 October 2024 (UTC)