Talk:Rodney Alcala

Order of entries

Mentioning the game show appearance within the "Murders section" is not quite appropriate since there is no murder associated specifically with the appearance. That said, if this is the section where the mention belongs, it should at least be mentioned in the correct chronological order.

Is it really necessary?

- Is it really necessary to quote this so-called "expert" that says that Cheryll's rejection may have "exaserbated" his crime spree? That sounds like victim blaming to me; even though she managed to avoid being his victim. Doesn't sound like a fair thing to say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:251A:7829:C8F9:8A5:8708:7640 (talk) 18:49, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Especially since this so-called expert is completely wrong and the citation only serves to create confusion. Alcala wasn't "set off" by his Dating Game rejection, he was already a serial murderer (not to mention a convicted rapist) before he was on the show. I removed this edit because it sounds like self-promotion and because it takes away from the factual integrity of the wikipedia entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.118.119 (talk) 00:07, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Good work 👍🏻 2600:100C:B2A8:6859:0:32:245F:2B01 (talk) 11:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Number of murders

- I changed his victim statistic to 5 (it mentioned 7-100), however since we are to use neutral Point of View, and it wasn't specifically proven that Mr Alcala has committed these crimes (yet, or if any). All the police have are a bunch of nude and non nude photographs of children and other people. Alcala was also in addition, CONVICTED of only 5 murders, he was indicted for others. Please, let the process drag on and the body count goes higher. 1 Death doesn't make him less of a creepy creep killer than 100's others right? -Samsamcat

>>> Ok fine, now that I read a bit of this TW and other rules you posted WP:OR I understand a bit more.... sorry to trouble you guys, yea just put 130 5-130. Still think we should just let the body count come in. That's how I though you guys did it in America, let the evidence speak well meh. If that's what it says that's what it says I guess. -Samcat. Ps: trying to gain consensus here like you dictated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samsamcat (talk • contribs) 20:31, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Samsamcat (talk • contribs) 05:23, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

We, as editors, cannot make such assessments, per WP:OR -- only sources can. And sources have speculated that his murder total could be much higher, as documented and referenced in detail within the article. DoctorJoeE (talk) 19:06, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

>>> Keyword, COULD. Why don't the bodies come in first? ---Samcat — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samsamcat (talk • contribs) 09:02, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Once again, that's not a call that you or I, as editors, get to make. The sources say minimum of 5, potential maximum 130. If you want to try to gain consensus for something different, be my guest; but please do so before making any further changes. DoctorJoeE (talk) 13:13, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

He's clearly notable. See here hereand here Three notable sources.--SKATER ^Speak. 17:38, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

No kidding, mate..see here. Feel free to add in if you find something new. (forgive the lack of log-in, kind of in a rush) User:VulpineLady at 74.4.91.87 (talk) 22:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Its about time wiki let this article happen. --Richard Rowe (talk) 03:50, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

When I created it, there was only one deletion and it was because it was an attack article or something.--SKATER ^Speak. 04:06, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Not at all - I got the article started with "convicted serial killer" and some awesome moderator tagged it as false and deleted it. Convicted serial killer is a fact, not an opinion or attack. I don't get wikipedia sometimes. Garbage articles stay up for years, but valid ones are taken down within minutes. BradTraylor (talk) 08:04, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

It's because a lot of the people with power on Wikipedia are Asperger's riddled freaks. That is the BIG problem with Wikipedia, the elephant in the room that the moderators don't want anyone to talk about. What do you think the odds are that at least one Wiki moderator is a serial killer? Pretty good in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.51 (talk) 20:20, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I really like how this article has developed...it really goes to show what a community like Wiki can accomplish! :D VulpineLady (talk) 02:11, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Merge

Woah...that's much better then this article right now, perhaps we should start merging in information?--SKATER ^Speak. 02:42, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Is there information about his upbringing: his early education or affiliation with certain groups in his developmental period? This information would make this article more valuable as an educational tool, showing possible origins of his alleged homicidal tendencies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.140.189.111 (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

I haven't seen much on it sifting through sources...Only thing now is what we know from the media.--SKATER ^Speak. 02:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

No objection to merge ;) Glad you like my work; Would you believe it took me 5 hours to do up the "user page"? (I seem to have misplaced my log in info O_O...I hate remote accessing from new computers) A few tweaks:

1. I think the Genius mention needs to be removed from the lead. There's some 'confusion' over his scores and I cover that here. Have left it for now.

Agreed--SKATER ^Speak. 23:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

2. Early Life was taken as a direct cite/quote from TRU TV and that needs to be reflected, hence the opening sentence on my page and the blockquote format. I've adjusted this page to the same, but I kept the updated linking (which was better than what I had ;) )

Oh...that's why you added that.--SKATER ^Speak. 23:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

3. This: "Alcala was encountered by authorities in the company of a 13-year old girl who claimed she had been kidnapped. Convicted of violating parole and providing marijuana to a minor, Alcala was again incarcerated."

Is technically accurate by today's standards, but the charge AT THE TIME was "providing pot to a minor" (I spent over 90 minutes just confirming that). I've left it at marijuana, for now, but my feeling is that it should be changed to pot for accuracy. Would like opinions on this.

I think it should be used as it's normal name of Marijuana.--SKATER ^Speak. 23:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

4. Added 2 boxes at top of talk page. Transferred from user page.

5. I found a publication of his 1997 booking retake/update here: http://www.laweekly.com/photoGallery/index/833085/10/ Is this image "Free use"? Can we use it for this article?

I'll check into it that would be great for the article!--SKATER ^Speak. 23:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

--I love the expanded infobox, I couldn't get mine to display right...and fabu grab on the YouTube video (had to replace it though, as Sony had them pull the original -- we'll have to keep an eye on that) :D User:VulpineLady 74.4.90.170 (talk) 13:48, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Is Rodney James Alcala really his birth name? I've got Texas Department of Health records that show a Rodrigo Jacques Alcala-Buquor born in Bexar County (where San Antonio is) on August 23, 1943 (the birth date given for our friend Rodney Alcala) to Raoul Alcala-Buquor and Anna Maria Gutierrez. I'm going to go revise the article using this page

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/bexar/vitals/births/1943/bexab43a.txt

as a reference. Methychroma (talk) 20:56, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Convicted rapist and registered sex offender

Did they have a sex offender registry in 1978? This source says the earliest is 1991[1]. Perhaps it should read 'known sex offender'.Geo8rge (talk) 20:19, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

According to the California Coalition on Sexual Offending (http://www.ccoso.org/): "In 1947, California became the first State to require convicted sex offenders to register with local law enforcement agencies." So yes, Alcala was registered as a sex offender in California in 1978. Registration did not become a federal statute until the 1990s. DoctorJoeE (talk) 21:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps a citation should be added to the reference, as I also thought this was an error at first. 68.146.70.124 (talk) 05:58, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Citation added. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 06:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

1977 murder SF

He was connected to a 1977 murder, that of Pamela Jean Lambson, in March 2011. Lambson was murdered in San Francisco. Perhaps someone with more Wikipedia knowledge than I could add this fact into the Alcala article? Source: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/New-Case-LinkeDating-Game-Killer--117568288.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.204.133 (talk) 06:13, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll do it today, and thanks for pointing it out.

I've also created a new section for your comment (and my reply), as you can see -- that's the preferred way to do it, in general, so that your comment won't get lost within an old discussion.

Also, be sure to sign your posts on talk pages with four tildes. Cheers, DoctorJoeE (talk) 13:57, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Other cold cases being investigated as possibly committed by Alcala

• New Hampshire: colds from the years he worked as a Camp Counselor: http://www.wmur.com/r/22957518/detail.html
• Seattle, Washington: Antionette "Tony" Witaker, 13 (Murdered, 1977); Joyce Gaunt, 17 ("Sexually Assaulted"/Murdered, 1978) - "Person of Interest"/DNA requested
• Douglas County, Washington: Cherry Greenman, 19 (Missing, 1976) - "Person of Interest"/Photo Match Negative (Case currently being handled by King's County)

also: "Nine women who are alive have been identified through the photos so far, according to The Associated Press. Huntington Beach police Capt. Chuck Thomas said one of them told authorities that Alcala molested her, but he said the statute of limitations in that case has expired."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011445336_serialkiller26m.html
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/89739937.html
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=997238&orgPrefix=NCMA&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US (Greenman's NCMEC poster)
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2010/mar/26/seattle-detective-follows-killers-trail-to/
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2010/apr/14/photos-of-missing-teen-not-tied-to-convicted/

This article is a GOLD MINE: http://www.laweekly.com/2010-02-26/news/rodney-alcala-s-final-revenge/

states he compiled a photo album of nude photographs of children and displayed it to coworkers and Editors at LA Times. Instead of notifying police (remember this was during the hunt for Hillside Strangler) they chalked it up to him being "weird" and looked the other way.

also reveals that Jill Barcomb's brother asked Alcala to "avoid trial" (plea deal, ostensibly)

...the storage locker containing all the photographs was located in Seattle and was rented under the name of one of the women in the "collection" though without her knowledge.

...I'll let someone else edit it all in as I find my thoughts becoming disjointed for lack of sleep. VulpineLady (talk) 02:59, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll get started it ASAP, great find!--SKATER ^{Is Back} 21:52, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

FWIW I've already gone through them and added relevant info (note that this was posted 6 months ago) -- but if you find something important that I overlooked, by all means, add it. Cheers, DoctorJoeE (talk) 22:03, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

.....This is exactly why I need to take more time before jumping back headfirst into the encyclopedia. =.=--SKATER ^{Is Back} 22:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

The DNA

Yeah I'mma just keep this nice and short, but in the article it mentions a new DNA sampling law, there is nothing immediately available that I saw [not like I really looked] besides the DNA link. Can I get some further information/verification on that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.25.133 (talk) 00:02, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

I added a link to the law. It was implemented in 2002 and requires death row inmates to provide DNA samples for the state databank. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 00:57, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

130 murders? Any serious sources but tabloid papers?

The article gives no official or serious source for the stated 130 murders. It is said that the police published more than 100 photographs. It is not even said that these are all photos of different persons. And even if they are: There is absolutely no statement of officials that all of the depicted persons could have been murdered. In contrast, some contacted the police after the photos had been published. So the number 130 is as plausible as the number 1,000 (maybe he killed 900 without taking photos). --92.213.9.64 (talk) 00:51, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Actually, the 130 estimate (and that's all it is, as clearly stated) is properly sourced, and is not based on the photos, which number over 1000, only 100 of which were released by police (also clearly stated). Speculation is permissible in an article as long as it is the source, not the editor, doing the speculating. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 15:20, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

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Alcala photographs link?

Hi everybody, has anyone been able to find a valid link to the 110 or so of Alcala's photos which have been published online? I've been searching, but so far have only found articles which mention the fact of their existence and which only show a limited subset of the full number. I seriously believe that a current and active link in the external links section is not only an appropriate addition to the article as it stands, but might even help to identify some of the people in them. Thanks.

The best one I've found so far is this, but it only shows 74 of them. Are we agreed this is an appropriate addition as a placeholder in the meantime?

Cadar (talk) 06:50, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Adding Alcala's 1979 mugshot via Huntington Beach Police Department

Hey everyone, I was wondering if someone here can add Rodney Alcala's 1979 mugshot on his wikipedia page that was taken by Huntington Beach Police Department.

It is this one located in this website:

http://themurdersquad.com/episodes/can-i-take-your-picture-part-2/

If you scroll down the site, it's the 4th picture.

Personally I think it would make his page really stand out. Just like how it was done on Richard Ramirez's Wikipedia page.

I would do it myself but I am concerned it may be taken down if I don't properly fill out the form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taulant12 (talk • contribs) 02:16, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hardwick VT Unsolved Cases

The unsolved murders of Joan Rogers and Bernard Ewen — both killed in Hardwick, Vermont in mid-July 1977 — are considered possible victims of Alcala, who had been allowed to go to nearby Albany, New York that year. Artaxerxes (talk) 14:05, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I feel that this should be addressed that he was "allowed" to go to Albany, New York "that year" it should be cleaned up a bit example he was given permission by his parole/probation officer I believe it was his parole officer and nearby do we know exactly where he was allowed to go? There's a lot that should be cleaned up since the movie "Woman of the hour" is out I don't know how to do this but I'm sure whomever will see this will have much more knowledge on Wikipedia and how to fix it than I. Thank you so much. I wish I could do it myself but I just don't have the time or resources. 2600:100C:B2A8:6859:0:32:245F:2B01 (talk) 11:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

References

Odd choice of link in the Monique Hoyt paragraph

It seems weird that the word "raped" in the following section from the article links to Statutory rape. To me it implies that this was an act where both parties were willing and Hoyt was just underage, which I don't think is the case. I'd think the link should just be to the general "rape" article, but maybe there is some rule I'm not aware of pertaining to linking to articles about sexual assault, or maybe this truly was a case of statutory rape? If that's technically the case (e.g., this initial act of sexual assault didn't involve overt force), I still think linking to statutory rape without a larger explanation is confusing because the general understanding of the term tends to be of (at least somewhat) willing participants, one of whom is under the age of consent.

On February 14, 1979, Alcala picked up 15-year-old hitchhiker Monique Hoyt in Riverside County. He drove Hoyt to his apartment, where he raped her. Scared all the time (talk) 19:45, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Having reviewed more of the edit history, it seems like perhaps that initial sexual encounter was consensual (though "consensual" probably isn't the right term considering the age and power imbalances), which makes statutory rape seem more appropriate. I still think the current version is confusing, leaving readers to wonder if statutory rape was linked to in error, but it's not inaccurate. Curious if there's a general rule or consensus about this type of thing. One the one hand, it doesn't really feel that important/useful to call attention to "this part probably wasn't done forcefully" when it's still statutory rape; on the other hand, there's probably a way to write it that doesn't cause confusion. Scared all the time (talk) 20:34, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Arrested for assaulting a 13-year-old?

Perhaps there's something I've overlooked, but a section of the article reads:

"Alcala was paroled in 1974 after seventeen months. Less than two months after his release, he was re-arrested for assaulting a 13-year-old girl identified in court records as "Julie J.", who had accepted what she thought would be a ride to school. Alcala was again paroled in 1976 after serving two years."

This mention of assault appeared to be different from other information I was hearing about this situation (in which he was arrested for breaking parole and giving marijuana to a minor), so I checked the included source here and saw nothing about him being arrested for an "assault" of the 13-year-old girl. Instead, it also states what I'd heard about him having been arrested for:

In 1974, two months after he got out of state prison, Alcala was found at Bolsa Chica State Beach in Huntington Beach with a 13-year-old girl who claimed he’d kidnapped her. He was convicted only of violating parole and giving pot to a minor, however, and two years later, upon his second release from prison, the law went easy on Alcala again. His parole officer in Los Angeles permitted Alcala, though a registered child rapist and known flight risk, to jaunt off to New York to visit relatives.

I'm wondering if perhaps this mention of "assault" is an inaccuracy that should be corrected. TheGutterMonkey (talk) 16:32, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

I think that is a great idea. 2600:100C:B2A8:6859:0:32:245F:2B01 (talk) 11:55, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Lack of Monique Hoyt Sources

I was checking the history of the section referencing Monique Hoyt and noticed that up until 2023, all that was written about her was "In 1979, according to later trial testimony, Alcala knocked unconscious and raped 15-year-old Monique Hoyt while she was posing for photographs." accompanied by this source. This is also all the source speaks about.

Then, suddenly, there's a whole big narrative attached to Hoyt involving a lot of details not included in the attached source, claiming that they went to the mountains, then a gas station, and ending with her making an escape and filing a police report on the whole matter, and that Alcala somehow managed to get bail afterwards. Where on earth is all of this information coming from? The source says nothing about any of it. TheGutterMonkey (talk) 18:07, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Alcala and Cottingham at Blue Cross

The source on that fact doesn’t actually ever mention it. It says that Cottingham worked at a health insurance company but doesn’t elaborate.

Rolling Stone cites a book regarding Cottingham working at Blue Cross, but I can’t find anywhere that indicates Alcala ever did. All sources I can find go back to that citation, unless it’s mentioned in a specific documentary or similar.

That being said, the mention of Cottingham seems out of place for a section specifically about Alcala’s murders. 2605:C840:801:57D0:55E8:EFE1:2639:A7E8 (talk) 07:17, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I am a little confused. Richard Cottingham says, in the Early life and career section,

At Blue Cross, Cottingham worked in an office with Rodney Alcala, a fugitive child molester and serial killer who lived in New York under the alias "John Berger". Neither man claimed to have been aware of the other, nor is there any evidence they were familiar with each other prior to their respective arrests

and that is attributed to Vronsky's 2021 book.

I can't see any mention of Cottingham in Rodney Alcala. Commander Keane (talk) 07:58, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Ahh I see you removed the passage earlier, hence why I couldn't find it. Commander Keane (talk) 08:01, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry. I posted that, then reread the source article and decided to make the edit because the ref didn’t ever mention Blue Cross or Alcala. I took a look at the 2021 book just now and that’s definitely where the info was from. BrandoBoySP (talk) 01:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)