Talk:Rodney, Mississippi

Anyone who wishes to help.

Fell free to help out with my article anyway you can. I really need some pictures if anyone knows of a good place.

Rewrite

I am considering doing a significant update/rewrite of this article. Notes, concerns, or objections are welcome, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 21:19, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

@Rjjiii: The NRHP template should be removed (the article is about a populated place). Magnolia677 (talk) 22:05, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

That is a good point. I've begun drafting here, and am merging in your improvements: User:Rjjiii/sandbox6[1] Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:18, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Ghost town?

Secondary sources describe the area as a "ghost town". The lead currently uses "unincorporated community", but I think that gives a stronger indication of a human presence and community than the sources support. Is the concern that various meanings of "ghost town" could give the wrong impression that the area is uninhabited? (This would be false as several homes or camps on stilts near the bayou are clearly still in use.) If "ghost town" is too ambiguous because it can mean uninhabited or largely abandoned, we could just spell it out "a largely abandoned town" and optionally wikilink that to ghost town. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:42, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 18:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Alston Grocery Store is one of the few remaining structures in Rodney, Mississippi.

• ... that Rodney, Mississippi, became a ghost town after the Mississippi River shifted about two miles away? Source: McHaney, Pearl Amelia (Spring 2015). "Eudora Welty's Mississippi River: A View from the Shore". The Southern Quarterly. 52 (3): 66–68. "A few years later, Mississippi: A Guide to the Magnolia State listed Rodney as a one of the state’s thirty-fi ve extinct towns and described it as “a ghost river town that died in 1876 when the Yazoo & Mississippi Valley R.R. was built. Prior to the War Between the States, Rodney with a population of 4,000 supported a wharf, a boat landing, two warehouses, and numerous stores and dwellings” (WPA 330). Many factors in addition to the war and the railroad line, however, led to the decline of the port by the time Welty visited Rodney in the nineteen thirties and forties. Yellow fever killed many of the citizens in 1843 and 1847, and in 1869, fire destroyed many buildings. The principal demise of the town, however, was brought about by the action of the Mississippi River itself when it changed course in 1870, developing a sandbar and rendering the port two miles from its shore. [...] Rodney was one of the flourishing towns of the period, but Welty’s characters were unaware that it would give way to the river’s power, so she gives the ghost town she had roamed and photographed with her friends the commerce and feel of her contemporary Natchez, set back in time."
  • ALT1: ... that Rodney, Mississippi, came just three votes short of becoming the capital of Mississippi? Source: Ghost Town on the Mississippi. The Steeple. PBS. 11 January 2013. Archived from the original on March 3, 2024. Retrieved 3 March 2024. "In fact, when Mississippi was admitted to the union in 1817, Rodney was almost its first capital, losing to Jackson by three votes."
  • ALT2: ... that the restoration of a historic church in Rodney, Mississippi, placed a replica cannonball into a hole in the wall? Source: Ghost Town on the Mississippi. The Steeple. PBS. 11 January 2013. Archived from the original on March 3, 2024. Retrieved 3 March 2024. "The United Daughters of the Confederacy acquired the Rodney Presbyterian Church, after it stopped being an active church, in order to try to preserve it. Several restorations have been completed on that building. During one of those restorations is when the false cannon ball was placed on the front wall to signify the damage that was inflicted on it during the Civil War. In recent years, a new group, the Rodney History and Preservation Society was formed to help bring attention to Rodney and save structures there. And they were able to acquire title to the Presbyterian Church from the Daughters of the Confederacy."
  • ALT3: ... that cotton receipts became de facto currency in Rodney, Mississippi, due to a shortage of legal tender? Source: Logan, Mary T. (1980). Mississippi–Louisiana Border Country (Revised 2nd ed.). Claitor's. LCCN 70-137737. "By 1807 the cotton receipt became legal tender [...] because there was not enough actual money in circulation with which to do business."
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Bridger Zadina & Template:Did you know nominations/Anders Bure
  • Comment: Three brief notes:

1. Regarding images: There are color images in the article that show extant structures in the town. All of these have free licenses. There are no broader-scope images depicting the whole town or a down-the-street view.
2. Regarding sources: ping me if you need more of Logan or McHaney. The PBS documentary has a transcript linked below the video, so you don't have to watch it to verify.
3. Regarding expansion: the article was around 280 words prior to expansion. An older version had large chunks of content removed for copyright violations. When I began expansion there were still 2 sentences (about 36 words) of copyrighted material very closely copied from a sign in front of the church.

5x expanded by Rjjiii (talk). Self-nominated at 03:38, 9 March 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Rodney, Mississippi; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Full review to follow, but my preference is ALT1. Though I would suggest mentioning in that hook as well that it's a ghost town now to make the contrast even more dramatic (like something about going from almost the capital to becoming a ghost town). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:14, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
  • @Narutolovehinata5: Like this? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 14:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
  • ALT4: ... that Rodney, Mississippi, went from a major river port that nearly became the state's capital in 1817 to a ghost town after the river changed course? Using McHaney as a source: "Rodney was nearly voted as the state capital in 1817, [...] In 1930, Mississippi Governor Theodore Bilbo signed an executive order declaring that Rodney was no longer a city. A few years later, Mississippi: A Guide to the Magnolia State listed Rodney as a one of the state’s thirty-five extinct towns and described it as “a ghost river town [...] The principal demise of the town, however, was brought about by the action of the Mississippi River itself when it changed course [...]"
• Apologies for the later review as real-life matters came up. The article is adequately sourced and I am assuming good faith on the sourcing, though the excerpts check out. I didn't find any close paraphrasing, and ALT4 is in the article and sourced. This is a bit of a weird case in that the article was previously a lot longer before being cut down due to copvios, and thus isn't detected as a 5x expansion by the DYKcheck tool. However, because the rule talks about expansion from the state when expansion began and not from the beginning, and the article was expanded 5x from that point on, that should work. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:33, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
  • It's all good Narutolovehinata5; real-life has to come first. For the convenience of other editors: The article was at 1775 words on March 9, 2024.[2] One-fifth of that is 355 words, and the article was never over 355 words after copyright-violating content was stripped in 2021.[3] I figure this is fine as WP:5X says, "This calculation is made from the last version of the article before the expansion began, even if text from the original was deleted in the process (unless the text was a copyright violation, in which case it does not count towards the size of the original)." Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:40, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Additional sources

• https://www.newspapers.com/article/tensas-gazette-reminiscences-of-histori/151346275/
• https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-vicksburg-post-vicksburesque-by-vbr/151345685/
• https://www.newspapers.com/article/clarion-ledger-old-once-rich-busy-rod/151345537/ (part 1 of 2) & https://www.newspapers.com/article/clarion-ledger-rodney/151354730/ (part 2 of 2)
• * Jefferson County (PDF). Source Material for Mississippi History, Volume XXXII, Part I. WPA Statewide Historical Research Project. 1938 – via mlc.lib.ms.us. - typescript that's not readily searchable but some good material

cheers, jengod (talk) 01:55, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

That's fantastic! I'm going to try work some of it into this article in a moment, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 05:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Maps and copyediting

This article is coming up soon for copyediting, and some of the images may get trimmed. Maps help understand the history of this town, but having multiple maps up at the top pushes a lot of the content. If it's paired down to one map, the 3-in-1 time periods map that Jengod added probably gives the clearest picture. Perhaps some of the extra maps can drop down into a chronological gallery in the Geography section?

• Maps
• 
  1822 (as Petit Gulf), 1884, and 1975, by the United States Army Corps of Engineers and Mississippi River Commission
• 
  1864, by the United States Coast Survey
• 
  1866, by Coloney & Fairchild
• 
  1866–1874, by Middleton, Strobridge & Co.
• 
  1986, by U.S. Geological Survey

Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 04:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Sounds like a great plan @Rjjiii. I agree that the three-in-one is the most useful to retain! If they can stay in a geography gallery awesome if not they can live in Commons and hopefully the link will be visible to anyone really interested. Thanks for organizing! jengod (talk) 15:20, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Post-copy edit

When copy edit is done I will work on cutting down the big quotes. I love quoting from original material because I think it's an essential window into history but it's not always suited for an encyclopedia article which is apparently what we do here LOL. jengod (talk) 04:12, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good; I'll likely nominate this for a GA review soon, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 14:01, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Rodney, Mississippi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Rjjiii (talk · contribs) 22:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Jordano53 (talk · contribs) 20:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Pre-review

Prior to an in-depth review, I will analyze the article for any criteria for immediate failure.

1. It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria
• Upon first read, this is not the case. Seems to be, at the very least, close to meeting the criteria.
2. It contains copyright violations
• Passes Earwig, and upon comparing the "closest" match, the only similarities are names of organizations and quoted material. Seems to be an original work!
3. It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include {{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags (See also {{QF}})
• No such tags are present on the article, and they needn't be added upon first read.
4. It is not stable due to edit warring on the page
• No history of edit warring, neither recently nor in the history of the article.
5. It has issues noted in a previous GA review that still have not been adequately addressed, as determined by a reviewer who has not previously reviewed the article
• N/A.

Awesome sauce! This isn't an immediate fail.

Review

1. Well-written:
   1. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and
   I went into the article and edited the (few) spelling and concision concerns I had. However, there are just a few clarity issues I noticed:
   • "In 1817, the Mississippi Territory was being admitted as a state, and Rodney was a candidate to become the state's capital but failed by three votes."
     • Who conducted the vote and how was it conducted?
       • @Jordano53: I expanded this to give more details, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
         • @Rjjiii: This is much more clear! Love it. Jordano⁵³ 01:02, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
   • "It was the primary shipping location for a broad swath of Mississippi,"
     • How big of a swath of Mississippi? Does it correlate to a modern-day region of the state?
       • @Jordano53: Clarified in the article. It's much smaller than that and would maybe amount to three modern-day counties. The whole northern section of the state, much of the gulf coast, and many other areas had few Americans and nearly no plantations. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
         • @Rjjiii: This is much better. Wonderful. Jordano⁵³ 01:02, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
   • "According to a former Rodney storekeeper: "The northwest or Rodney district [of Jefferson County] was the home of McGill, Hubbard, Hopkins, Mackey, Turnbull, Rabb, Bradshaw, Sisson" as well as three American Revolutionary War veterans, Porter, Johnson and Caleb Potter, veterans of the Battle of Monmouth who were reintroduced to the Marquis de Lafayette on his 1824–25 tour of the United States."
     • This is a little bit thrown in, especially given that the beginning half of the paragraph starts by talking about trade and currencies. Who do those last names belong to prior to the bit about the Revolutionary war veterans?
       • These were added by another editor, and so I don't have access to the source, but I think that the meeting described takes place just downriver in Natchez. I've commented it out rather than delete in case Jengod (or anyone with access to the source) either wants to move the facts to Natchez, Mississippi, or has some context that gives them WP:DUE weight here. Also, if part of the thought process was to give more perspective from the town's residents, I have added another angle on the hotel and a copy of the town newspaper discussed in the article (this issue has a long section on the Oakland commencement which is also relevant to that section).[4] Hope that resolves the issue, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 17:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
         • That works for me! Jordano⁵³ 17:41, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
           • With all issues addressed in this criteria, this article now passes.
   2. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
   Largely perfect. It meets the layout criteria, though there are just a couple of violations elsewhere:
   • The order of the elements in the lead section, namely the image, is not compliant with the MOS. I went ahead and fixed this in the article. However, you may be better off moving the image elsewhere in the article, as there is a more relevant image that represents Rodney already present in the infobox.
     • Thanks! I've moved that 3-map image down to the next section and somewhat rearranged the images. I've removed one photo entirely and placed all other maps in a chronological gallery under Rodney, Mississippi#Geography. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 17:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
       • Splendid! This looks good to me.
   • "Some residents remained in the vicinity, including an African-American man named Bob Smith, who had been marshal of Rodney "during Reconstruction days". According to histories published in the 1930s, Smith ran a "crude dining room" renowned for its "fried chicken, hot cakes, fish, figs, etc. in season" and "great stacks of savory froglegs."
     • The word "renowned" in this section is a little bit WP:PUFFERY. Consider a reword or quoting a review from one of those histories.
       • I've rephrased this section to make it more objective, and used the wording "known among travelers". The "PUFFERY" reflected a kind of storytelling romantic tone in the sources ("wonder of all the traveling men", "the topic of conversation", "famous for his crockery and bountiful supply") which is common for the time and place. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 17:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
         • I understand that- even in my short time being interested in Mississippi articles I've noticed that old newspapers liked to use some pretty vivacious vocabulary. I like the information in quotes better. With both issues addressed, this now passes this criteria. Jordano⁵³ 17:41, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

   Hello @Rjjiii I agree that commenting it out for the time being is the way to go! Best, jengod (talk) 17:34, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

   Oof, sorry for the mix up. I did a revision history search for the "Watkins" source and just assumed the quotes were added at the same time. Thanks for the input, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 17:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

2. Verifiable with no original research:
   1. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;
   A proper references tab is present, along with the appropriate in-line citations. However:
   • I would advise you to list texts such as the one from Logan or Haynes in a separate "sources" or "bibliography" tag (whichever wording you prefer), and let those short citations appear in the "references" section. I believe you fully cited the first instance and then short cited the rest, so I don't believe this to be too big a switch.
     • Done. I've also moved Powell (1938) down since the named citation covered 5 pages, but each use only covered 1 to 3 of them. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 17:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
       • Love it! This passes the criteria now. Jordano⁵³ 17:41, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
   2. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose);
   Plenty of in-line citations, all information in article is followed by a proper citation. The citations themselves are reliable and notable. I conducted a spot check of a few online sources, and found no close paraphrasing while still relating to the reference.
   3. it contains no original research; and
   No original research, all information from sources
   4. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
   As noted above, no copyvios.
3. Broad in its coverage:
   1. it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and
   Sure does! Covers the community in great detail!
   2. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
   Stays on track, only covering the community and its immediate surrounding area.
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
Neutral indeed. There doesn't seem to be bias in its writing.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
As noted above, stable article with no edit warring.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
   1. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
   No non-free content, and all Commons material has proper copyright info.
   2. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
   Relevant and properly captioned

In summary

This is a fantastically-written article! There are a few issues mentioned above that require attention before I can pass it, but I trust that these are quick fixes. I was also about to say that this would make a killer DYK, but noticed you already got it there! Jordano⁵³ 23:02, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Just making a couple of adjustments and additional comments. Jordano⁵³ 00:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll go through the formatting first, and then come back to the clarity issues, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 19:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

There are still 2 clarity points to address. I need to check the cited source out from the library first to make sure I don't need to adjust the page numbers or cite an additional source. In an hour or so, I'll start getting ready for Christmas and should be able to get to those 2 by this weekend. Happy holidays, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 17:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Merry Christmas to you, too! Jordano⁵³ 04:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the patience. I've tried to clarify both point in the article.[5] In those edits, I also switched to a more chronological set of maps cropped to the same area and slightly expanded a few paragraphs. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

@Rjjiii: I've checked your revisions and they are up to standards. I did a once-over of the article and all looks well. I am more than happy to pass this article. Congratulations and thank you for your fine work on telling the story of a fascinating historic community. Jordano⁵³ 01:06, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Appreciate the kind words and the feedback on the article! Take care, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:14, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Newspaper scans

April 8, 1936, issue of the Southern Telegraph

@Magnolia677:, the pdf in this talk page section was removed as "Decorative and unnecessary". My intention was to clearly link the newspapers as artifacts of the time (which I guess the primary source citations in that section already do). I'm thinking about adding the links below (and a link to the Rodney Gazette if I can find scans online) to the bottom of the article. Would this still seem unnecessary?

• "Southern Telegraph (Rodney, Miss.) 1834-1838". Chronicling America – via Library of Congress.
• "The Rodney Telegraph (Rodney, Miss.) 1838-1840". Chronicling America – via Library of Congress.

Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 16:25, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

@Rjjiii: What section of the article would you add the links to, per WP:USCITIES? --Magnolia677 (talk) 17:01, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

"Further reading" or "External links" Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 18:40, 26 December 2024 (UTC)