Talk:Roderic

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Julian

I read somewhere (a Ceuti antiquarian), I think, that Julian was not the name of the count but his title. He would be count of Julia Septa Whatever (the Latin name of Ceuta), so it would read as Comes Iulianus whence the confusion. --Error 7 July 2005 00:21 (UTC)

fine article!

reputed to have been?

It seems definitively wrong to say that he is "reputed to have been" the last Visigothic King. This implies that he may not have existed, when, as I understand it, the issue is more that there were later rulers who might be considered the last King of the Visigoths. "is considered to be" would seem more appropriate than "was reputed to have been," which suggests he might be a legendary figure. john k 23:11, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Roderic means ...?

Roderic is said to mean "powerful", "rich" or "famous". Sure? Then which of them? No, irony aside I believe Roderic means "resourceful" or "mighty in resourcefulness" (Hroda-rikus). Rikus = rich ≈ rich of ≈ full of - pretty plausible, or? Hrodigaz (resourcefull) is an old germanic stem still occurring in Nordic, s.a.f.ex. Swedish rådig (resourcefull), and was a common stem for names, s.a.f.ex. king Hrodawulfaz (Rodulf - resourcefull wolf, of course!!) of the Heruli, all Hrodgars (Rogers) of the Beowulf, etc. Rursus 23:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

death year

he died in 711 but he ruled until 712. how is that possible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arkwatem (talk • contribs) 09:19, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Beheaded

Yo, he was beheaded by Tarik ibn Ziyad during the endgame. why isn't all this mentioned in the article? I find you christians very biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.212.82.47 (talk) 20:49, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Legends

{{cleanup|section|date=July 2007}} Following the Catholicization of the Visigothic kings, the Catholic bishops increased in power, until, at the synod held at Toledo in 633, they gained the nobles' right to select a king from among the royal family. When King Ergica died in 701, the throne passed to his son, Wittiza, who had been co-ruler from 693. Upon the deposing or death of King Wittiza in 709, the nobles selected Roderic, the duke of Baetica, who in turn defeated the heirs of Wittiza who claimed a right to rule.

The family of Wittiza then fled to Ceuta on the northern shore of the Maghreb. In Ceuta, Visigothic rivals of Roderic gathered along with Arians and Jews fleeing forced conversions at the hands of the Catholic bishops who controlled the Visigothic monarchy. The surrounding area of the Maghreb had recently been conquered by Musa Ibn Nosseyr, who established his governor, Tariq ibn Ziyad, at Tangier with a Moorish army of 1,700 men.

Julian, count of Ceuta, who the Arabs called Ilyan, was Roderic's vassal but also on increasingly good terms with Tariq, and the family of Wittiza. The Egyptian historian of the Muslim conquests, Ibn Abd-el-Hakem, related a century and a half later that Julian had sent one of his daughters to the Visigothic court at Toledo for education (and as a gauge for Julian's loyalty, no doubt) and that Roderic had made her pregnant. Later ballads and chronicles inflated this tale — she was known in Spanish as la Cava Rumía and attributed Julian's enmity to Roderic's poor treatment of his daughter.

Some historians argue that personal power politics may have played a larger part as both Julian and Wittiza's family sought power in the Visgothic kingdom. In exchange for lands in Al-Andalus (the Arab name for the area which the Visigoths still called by its Roman name Hispania) Julian's ships carried Tariq's troops across the Straight of Hercules (Strait of Gibraltar).

In the spring of 711, Roderic was campaigning against the Basques and Franks near the north Iberian town of Pamplona. Tariq, briefed by Julian, whom he left behind among the merchants, crossed into Visigothic Hispania with a reconnaissance force of some 1,700 men, sailing by night and keeping their size inconspicuous. Ibn Abd-el-Hakem reported that "the people of Andalus did not observe them, thinking that the vessels crossing and recrossing were similar to the trading vessels which for their benefit plied backwards and forwards." Tariq and his men marched up as far as Cartagena on the coast, then to Cordoba, where resistance from the local Visigothic garrison was eventually driven back to the city.

Roderic marched his forces south and met Tariq's men at the Battle of the Rio Barbate or the Battle of Guadalete in the Province of Cadiz. The battle occurred on July 19, 711. Roderic's army of around 25,000 men was defeated by Tariq's force of approximately 7,000.

Roderic is believed to have died in the battle, though his exact fate is unknown. The Visigothic army was defeated when the wings commanded by Roderic's relatives Sisbert and Osbert deserted. His defeat left the Visigoths disorganized and leaderless, and the survivors fled north to Écija near Seville.

The great majority of Roderic's court was also believed killed in the battle (an old tradition says he survived and tried to reach the northern peninsula, in order to defeat the invaders, but died when he was at Viseu^[1] or Guarda, in the Centro Region of modern Portugal, where some claim his body was buried.^[2] The resulting power vacuum is believed to have assisted Tariq's lord, Musa ibn Nusair, in conquering most of the Iberian Peninsula by 718 and the whole of the Visigothic territories by 725.

References

^ DON OPPAS
^ The Portuguese Abbot António Carvalho da Costa (1650-1715), in his book Corografia Portugueza e Descripçam Topografica do famoso Reyno de Portugal, tomo II, Lisboa, 1708, claims that Roderic was expelled from Andalusia and found refuge in Lusitania, where he aimed at rebuiding his kingdom. The abbot claims this based in a grave found at Feital (in Trancoso, District of Guarda, Portugal), with the inscription Here lies Roderic, King of the Goths, and that was still preserved in the 18th century at the church of São Miguel de Feital. This claim was never verified and is considered legendary.)

Tomb stone of Roderic

The tomb stone of Roderic, bearing the inscriptoin "Hic requiescit Rodericus, rex Gothorum", which is mentioned in the main text, can only be a fake or fantasy. The Visigothic kings were not called reges Gothorum. The term Gothorum or Gothi or Visigothi, had long fallen out of use by the early 8th century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.5.187.42 (talk) 11:21, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deletes now, your welcome Jake the brain (talk) 01:40, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Who says its an early 8th-century tombstone? Srnec (talk) 03:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The term 8th century does not correlate with the 800nds, it refferes to the 700ds

Jake the brain (talk) 13:59, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] DON OPPAS

[2] The Portuguese Abbot António Carvalho da Costa (1650-1715), in his book Corografia Portugueza e Descripçam Topografica do famoso Reyno de Portugal, tomo II, Lisboa, 1708, claims that Roderic was expelled from Andalusia and found refuge in Lusitania, where he aimed at rebuiding his kingdom. The abbot claims this based in a grave found at Feital (in Trancoso, District of Guarda, Portugal), with the inscription Here lies Roderic, King of the Goths, and that was still preserved in the 18th century at the church of São Miguel de Feital. This claim was never verified and is considered legendary.)

[1]

[2]