Talk:Rock-a-bye Baby

wild Wild West

[Untitled]

There is an episode of the movie short John Nesbitt's Passing Parade that claims Hush-A-Bye Baby was written in England during the reign of King James II and that the meaning of the song has something to do with the king faking the birth of an heir, that the "tree" is a family tree, etc. That would date this to around the time of Lilliburlero. I looked at the page for Lilliburlero, but nothing in the lyrics there seems to quite fit this description. --71.58.118.98 10:36, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I read a similar story in a book about British royalty. According to that, the baby was James Francis Edward Stuart and the wind was bringing William of Orange. Jess Cully 14:54, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Similarly, the word is "bow", a double meaning with bough. It refers to the bow of the ship bringing William of Orange from Holland to overthrow his Stuart cousins; the baby is the old pretender, whgo actually had a good claim to the throne in terms of heredity, but was politically undesirable to the protestants. [Robbin Stewart, 2015]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.112.201.68 (talk) 00:51, 21 May 2015 (UTC) 

Again regarding royalty - I have read that the nursery rhyme related to the english civil war, a surreptitious way of singing dissent: Rockabye baby on the tree top (King Charles 1st in precarious position as head of all religion and state, parliment wanting to control and say goodbye to kings absolute power); When the wind blows the cradle will rock (the wind of change unsettling the throne as balance of power begins alter); When the bough breaks the the cradle will fall (weight of opinion in parliment leads to revolution to topple the throne); And down will come baby cradle and all (the end to the crown, absolute monarchy and the cavalier royal supporters) - please comment as unable to remember source material...--62.6.249.131 10:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I have a source! This story about the song is quite popular in Northern Ireland. --Helenalex 21:39, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd greatly appreciate if somebody could supply me with source material to the effect that the two melodies (Lillibullero and Rock-a-bye baby) are actually "relatives", as it were. Many internet sources seem to support that claim, but other than that, few hard facts are given. There are some, well, similarities in the broadest sense, but these are (to my ears, at least) superficial - they don't seem to go any further than the 6/8 meter and general melodic outline, which isn't all that surprising, given the "folksy" context. My impression is (I may be wrong, of course) that the Rock-a-bye baby melody is considerably more modern in its musical outlook, makes more efficient use of wide interval leaps and does some quite surprising things (like the double ascending fourth interval that goes with the words "down will come" - although the music at this point doesn't echo the lyrics too well ;-)). Plus, the chord accompaniments demanded by the respective tunes, simple as they may be, are obviously different. Anyway, since I find "Lillibullero" a song with an amazing history, I'd like to add a few words about the supposed connection to the lullaby (I'm just in the process of translating the "Lillibullero" article into German). Any suggestions are welcome, you are also invited to leave a message on the talk page of the German article (de:Lillibullero). Thx, --Rainer Lewalter 21:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

The melody you describe, with the double ascending fourths, is well-known and probably universal in North America, and has nothing to do with Lilliburlero. Compare this YouTube version in a British accent with this one in an American one. The latter is definitely 3/4 rather than 6/8. --John Cowan (talk) 17:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

See the sheet music on the main article which I have inserted. This removes the confusion as there are 2 distinct and famous melodies for the song. One is like Lillibulero, the other is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bkesselman (talk • contribs) 10:35, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

I have always taken this lullaby to mean when in the 18 century, women couldn't afford to look after their babies; especially middle class young ladies with no husband, would leave the baby in a cradle in a tree and walk away, then nature would take care of the child and they could leave without having actually murdered the baby. This was apparantly very prevalient at this time, with people having to step over dead babies bodies in the gutter on the streets of London, and is linked to The Foundling Hospital, it was begun by the philanthropic sea captain Thomas Coram who was appalled to see abandoned babies and children starving and dying in the streets of London. In 1742–1745 a building was erected north of Lamb's Conduit Street in Bloomsbury, London. Young women would bring their babies to The Foundling Hospital and beg them to take their babies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.178.165.123 (talk) 16:49, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Lullaby?

What this song really intended to be a lullaby? Some of the words tell the possibility about the baby falling if what's holding breaks. Doesn't sound lullaby-material. 124.106.201.225 09:19, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing--99.234.115.165 (talk) 16:41, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

The original words are 18th century at least, and to me sound closer to old 'dandling' rhymes, which are not strictly lullabies at all but baby games. For example one goes -

There, little baby, there you go

Up to the ceiling, down to the ground

Backwards and forwards, round and round

Dance, little baby, and mother shall sing

With the merry gay coral, ding, ding-a-ding.'

Another I quoted in the article sounds slightly nearer to Rockabye:

Catch him crow! Carry him, kite!

Take him away till the apples are ripe

When they are ripe and ready to fall

Here comes baby, apples and all'.

Obviously at the first two lines you swing baby up in the air; line three hold him there; and at line 4 swing him back down again. Well, it might make baby laugh (or throw up) but can't see it would send one to sleep. But I suppose that kind of play might be used to tire a toddler out till he's ready to sleep. RLamb (talk) 13:42, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Version with Positive Lyrics

According to W. W. Denslow's Mother Goose at Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18546/18546-h/18546-h.htm), there is a version with a much more desirable ending:

Hush-a-bye, baby, on on the tree top,

When the wind blows the cradle will rock;

When the bough bends it never can fall,

Safe is the baby, bough, cradle and all.

I was wondering if it should be included, and if anyone knows any more information on it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.51.126.69 (talk) 07:17, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't have any more information on it, but since it is sourced I cannot see any problem with this going in.--SabreBD (talk) 07:46, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Other entries in Denslow's Mother Goose were likewise edited to make them less violent. Denslow has the old woman who lived in a shoe kiss her children fondly before sending them to bed, instead of whipping them all soundly.Hieronymus Illinensis (talk) 08:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

A mother's thoughts

It occurred to me, while fishing for lullabies to calm my newborn with about...12 years ago...that this song was actually about the birthing process. That's (perhaps) a simpler explanation than these others, but it makes sense to me. The treetop is the mother's womb, the bough breaking is the water breaking, and right afterwards comes baby, cradle and all (baby + afterbirth that use to "cradle" it). As someone prone to usually over-thinking things, I'm surprised this simpler interpretation hasn't been suggested yet. --Saronai

~~gene.lanzl~~ I believe that this poet wanted to write about pregnancy, a subject that could not be discussed in public and even within families was not talked about. The inspiration could well have come from the bible, Pro 3:13. "Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding." Pro 3:18 "She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her." Instead of thinking about a natural tree, think about a "Woman Tree". the cradle/baby are hung high in the womb and when the mother "breathes" the "wind blows". In Hebrew, the original language of Proverbs, one word is used to mean wind and breath, "ruach" . When she breathes, her diaphragm moves and causes the cradle to rock. In nine months something breaks and down comes cradle, baby and all. The poet does not tell us if the baby is okay or not. Each birth is unique and we must check to see. This whole experience of conception to birth was filled will anxiety as there most likely was not any prenatal care, no hospital and no doctor, a midwife perhaps. Many things could go wrong and often did. The poet captured this anxiety very well with the words but this same experience also produced hope and great joy. I imagine family members happily preparing for the new baby's arrival, so we have two very different emotions attached to this experience, anxiety & joy. How did the poet capture the joy? Let me suggest that the music does that very well. The happy melody married to the anxious words, perfectly captures the experience of obeying God's words, "Be fruitful and multiply". Because talking about pregnancy was not socially acceptable, those who understood the poem's meaning chose not to explain it and the meaning was lost over time. Now we can speak of the things and share what the poet really meant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gene.lanzl (talk • contribs) 12:39, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

References

Lillibullero

I don't think that Rock-a-bye-baby and Lillibullero sound even remotely like they could be related. Is there something I'm missing, or can that statement be removed? ( For reference: Rock-a-bye vs. Lillibullero) Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:31, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

See the sheet music on the main article which I have inserted. This removes the confusion as there are 2 distinct and famous melodies for the song. One is like Lillibulero, the other is not.

Shouldn't there be sheet music for the American tune as well, in order to clarify the difference?

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Origins Timing

A previous editor didn't understand that the 1600s were the 17th century. I am making edits to the origins section to correct this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.79.217 (talk) 08:30, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Citation Clean-Up

I've added a few citations and also added Citation Needed tags to several passages in desperate need of them. After eight years without a citation (and I cannot find any sources not based on this article), I am removing this uncited factual claim from the opening paragraph: The melody is a variant of the English satirical ballad "Lillibullero". I am also removing this image, which self-identifies as original research. Justin Bacon (talk) 23:51, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

I have also removed this uncited claim, which was recently pasted incoherently into the middle of an unrelated passage of text: "Although in Greek mythology, Zeus was hung in a tree cradle 'twixt sky and earth' to prevent his murderous father Kronos finding him." Justin Bacon (talk) 23:51, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

There is also this uncited claim from the article: "The most common version used today is:". This section originally had variant lyrics, but these were changed without explanation to match the earliest published 1765 lyrics in a 19 March 2019 edit without explanation. Passage should either be cited, corrected, or, more likely, removed. Justin Bacon (talk) 23:51, 21 September 2020 (UTC)