Talk:Rob Refsnyder/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Buttons to Push Buttons (talk · contribs) 16:46, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Will be starting on this today, but my initials impressions are very positive – can't imagine it'll need much work at all. Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 16:46, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Great! It does need me to update around his promotion on June 10, hadn't gotten to that yet, but I shall today. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:08, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Early life

All good here.

Amateur career

• "Refsnyder attended Laguna Hills High School in Laguna Hills, California, ..." isn't verified by the NY Post ref. The NY Times ref "On Deck ..." verifies, and is used after the subsequent sentence, but I'd personally repeat it here, either after the comma or after the sentence, otherwise it's not clear what's sourcing it.
  • Fixed. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:21, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
• Does "Lancers routed by the Hawks" ref work for you? It appears dead to me, but again may be a geofencing issue (as I'm not US-based). Either needs |url-status=dead and archive, or |url-access=limited, depending. Working archive here, if needed.
  • That link is dead, I put it in this article almost 10 years ago to the day. I found it here. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:21, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
• Likewise "Molnar, Swigert, Waldron on All-CIF defensive team" ref. Archive here, again if needed.
  • Thank you, fixed. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:21, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
• Likewise "Sea Kings honored in league". Archive here.
  • Thank you, fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 03:21, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
• Is RiverAveBlues.com a reliable source? Looks a bit fan-bloggy. When it comes to something like SBNation, at least that has Vox backing it, but I'm not sure about this. Might just be I'm unfamiliar with it, though.
  • I'd like to defend it, since I've read Mike Axisa for over a decade now. He writes for CBS Sports now (https://www.cbssports.com/writers/mike-axisa/) and I subscribe to his Patreon newsletter focused on the Yankees (https://www.patreon.com/RABthoughts/). I'll still look to see if I can find it elsewhere. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:21, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
• Ref "Sun Devils dominate Pac-10 awards" seems to be dead. Archive here.
  • Thanks, fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 19:09, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• Not familiar with PointStreak, but I don't really see a reason to doubt its reliability.
  • PointStreak is okay. I don't add their links, but I don't remove them either. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:39, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
• Ref "Commodores Stun Wareham With Late Comeback" is dead. Archive here.
  • Thanks, fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 19:09, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• Not sure if this needs changing or not, but as the NY Post article was written before the CWS, his junior year stats aren't complete -- note the River Ave Blues ref giving him 2 more homers, different BA, different number of steals, etc. Baseball-Ref worth using here, perhaps?
  • I'll use B Ref. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:28, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

New York Yankees

• The NYT ref verifies he's a fifth round pick, but not that he went 187th overall specifically. The Live5News ref "Robert Refsnyder begins pro career in Charleston" does, however, so can just duplicate that I guess
  • Fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 21:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• .452 OBP for Charleston in 2013 isn't in the given source, but the MiLB.com source "Sanchez, Turley top Yankees All-Stars: First-rounder Jagielo makes instant impression at hot corner" has it
  • Fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 21:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• Speaking of the ref "Sanchez, Turley ...", it's dead. Couldn't find a new URL, but archive here
  • I can't find where it migrated to when they redid their urls either. Archive link added. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• Per that same ref, the .408 OBP and .404 SLG were only for his time in Tampa, not across both levels as is currently stated
  • Fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
• NY Daily News ref "Yankees minor league prospect Rob Refsnyder has potential ..." needs |url-access=limited, as it's geofenced for European visitors. Archive here, if you feel it's necessary.
  • Added |url-access=limited – Muboshgu (talk) 21:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• MiLB.com ref "Refsnyder and Colon Win Weekly Awards" is dead, new URL here https://www.milb.com/news/gcs-77866562
  • Thank you, fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 21:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• Times-Tribune ref "Top second base prospect moves one step closer to bigs" seems to now be subscriber-only? No reason not to WP:AGF that it verifies content, but needs marking with |url-access=subscription. Couldn't find an archive, unfortunately.
  • Added, pretty sure that's a change from 2014 – Muboshgu (talk) 21:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
• I feel like the given Newsday ref doesn't really verify "The Yankees gave Refsnyder an opportunity to compete for a spot with the major league team in 2015 ..." not least considering it was written in August 2014, long before spring training... but doesn't the ref at the end of the sentence work for it anyway? Has quotes like "Joe Girardi went so far as to declare that the solution to the problem resided inside the Yankees' clubhouse ..." after all. I'd probably just remove this usage of the Newsday ref
  • You're right. Not sure why the Newsday was there, I took it out and added the "on deck" ref too. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
• "He made his major league debut on July 11, ..." do we need to repeat July 11? Already mentioned at the top of the paragraph. I'd just say "that day," personally. Totally a judgment call, though, so if you wanna leave it that's fine tbh.
  • Changed the second usage to "that day". – Muboshgu (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
• YES ref "Rob Refsnyder to play 3B in camp Thursday ..." is dead. Archive here.
  • Fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
• MLB.com ref "Yankees option Refsnyder to Triple-A: Infielder was competing for spot on 25-man roster" is dead. New URL here.
  • Fixed – Muboshgu (talk)
• NY Daily News ref "Yankees call up six ..." needs noting for limited access, European geofencing, etc. etc. Archive here, if you think it's necessary.
  • Noted limited access – Muboshgu (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
• "Refsnynder finished the 2016 season with a .250 average in 58 major league games, while he batted .316 in 54 games for the RailRiders." is unreffed.
  • This one took me longer because I looked for actual news sources that had these numbers, but I couldn't find any. So I'm using B-Ref. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:28, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Toronto Blue Jays

No issues at all.

Tampa Bay Rays

• "... but batted .191 during spring training." is unreffed -- doesn't appear to be in the Cleveland Plain Dealer ref, anyway.
  • Odd. Got it here. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:48, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Arizona Diamondbacks and Cincinnati Reds

• This section feels a bit WP:PROSELINEy, as both paragraphs begin "On [xyz date], ..." The rest of the article does really well at weaving dates into the prose, would be nice to see this follow suit, I think.
  • Indeed. Changed the first opening sentence, kept the second. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:50, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Texas Rangers

• Has another proseliney start...
  • Fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 22:51, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Minnesota Twins

• ... and a third consecutive section to begin with the same proseline structure. Can overlook one or two, as it's a pretty natural phrasing, but when it's four consecutive paragraphs across three consecutive sections, it starts to read a little dry, and it's in stark contrast to the rest of the article.
  • Fixed. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:47, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
• It says he signed on Nov 23, 2020, but the ref was published Dec 17, and says "on Thursday" which was that same day. Possible he agreed earlier but it was officially signed later or something? Would suggest following the source, anyway
  • Fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 02:47, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
• "In his first game back, on June 14, Refsnyder strained his left hamstring ..." The ref's dated June 9, and says "on Wednesday", which is the same day. Then again, baseball-ref has his the Orioles game as May 31 and the Yankees game as June 8... What a mess that source leaves, ugh :(
  • Yeah, his return was June 8, so I fixed that. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:59, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
• KSTP ref is dead, new URL here. (Also, re: the previous issue, this source says the Yankees game and his hamstring injury was on the Tuesday, which would line up with b-ref, fwiw.)
  • Thanks, swapped – Muboshgu (talk) 02:47, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
• Electing free agency needs a ref, I guess? Can just re-use the MiLB.com one from the Rangers section, as that covers it.
  • Done – Muboshgu (talk) 02:47, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Boston Red Sox

• Proseline start again. Might be fine depending on how the other ones are dealt with, though.
  • How's that? – Muboshgu (talk) 03:55, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
• MLBTR ref here has a busted author -- Franco is the surname, not the publisher; no idea what Petzold's doing in there.
  • Me neither, fixed – Muboshgu (talk) 03:55, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Personal life

• Ref "He'll make you believe ..." needs |url-access=limited, as it's geofenced for European visitors. Archive here, if you feel it's worth adding.
  • Done – Muboshgu (talk) 03:21, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
• Not sure his son's name should be included, per WP:BLPNAME. I think his other relatives are all pretty reasonable to include, given the coverage of his & his sister's adoption and his wife's swimming career, but I don't think we need to name his son.
  • Yeah that's an oops. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:21, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Okay, that's everything I think. Prose is really great, with few exceptions – I always think it's tricky to write about fringey players, but his career's handled well, without excessive stats bloat, and there's good coverage of his life outside baseball to really elevate it. MOS adherence is perfect, bar MOS:ACCIM which says all images need alt text to aid accessibility for those with vision impairment and/or those using screen readers. Such a small thing, though. Referencing is great: only one I have potential reliability concerns over (and even then, it may be fine); one or two sentences are missing refs, but no real concerns; and there's some formatting maintenance required. I saw no copyvio concerns while reading through, and the detection tool agrees, showing a similarity of just 10.7%.

Coverage is deep and broad, without getting bogged down in excessive minutiae. No NPOV concerns at all – didn't notice any puffery, even; superlatives are cited and attributed. Article's stable, with just one tiny update today (which you mentioned, and I've checked, with everything looking fine).

Images all look fine: one uploaded by a user (and looks legitimate, with AGF anyway); one with PD clearly verified on the source page; bots/users have manually checked all but one of the rest as having had appropriate licensure at time of upload. The exception is the image in the infobox, which the bot couldn't verify, but my own look at the Flickr page shows a CC-2.0 license, and it's one without a would-be-disqualifying non-commercial stipulation. As such, by my understanding, it's a perfectly valid use.

So it broadly meets everything, just a few slight tweaks needed. Honestly it feels kinda harsh to put it on hold – it's so close to an outright pass and just leaving you a handful of things to clean up afterwards, but a couple missing refs is probably the difference. Regardless, it's a very fine article as is, and the work needed isn't too great at all. Any questions, just ping. Cheers! Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 21:11, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

That's enough things to fix that it's fine to put it on hold. I haven't gotten to this yet but I think I can focus on it for a bit tomorrow. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:19, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Buttons to Push Buttons, I think I've addressed everything. Took me longer than I expected with other commitments demanding my time. Lmk if there's anything else that could be improved. Be tough, too. I half wonder if this could get to FA. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:29, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. I've been through all the changes and everything checks out, with the exception of the two things I noted in the Personal life section (I fear it may have melded into my summary and escaped your gaze, ha), and the lack of alt text for images, as noted in the summary. Frankly, they should be incredibly quick fixes. Also, I didn't realise RiverAveBlues was a professional, published sportswriter's site; in that case, I'm fine with it -- blogs are the domain of so many professional journalists these days, so I'm fine with that staying. I wonder if FA might take issue with MLBTR too, although I personally know it well, having used it for a decade or more now. Not sure what their standards are, though.

Honestly, beyond that, I think I noted every single one of my issues with the article in the first place -- I think I was as rigorous as I would be on any FA nomination (although admittedly that's not a process I've actually engaged with before). If you do go for it, I doubt you'd have too many hold ups at all. If you really wanted to polish the text, perhaps you could move towards a total avoidance of proseline; I'm not sure the specific date of everything always needs to be noted. For example, is it really important that he signed a minor league deal on Dec 17th of whatever year, rather than simply stating it happened in that offseason? Would we note the date for a player of his calibre who played 50 years ago, if we were writing a full career retrospective from scratch? I don't think so; I know I wouldn't. It's the consequence of incremental, accumulative updates, rather than a holistic approach. I suppose the lead could perhaps be a little longer too, but frankly, I wonder what else you could add. Beyond that, I really don't know that I've got anything at all to suggest!

Overall, I just think it's in a great state, frankly. If you can tick off those final three issues I'll happily give it that final assent. Cheers! Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 23:03, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Buttons to Push Buttons, yep, somehow failed to see those two personal life bullets. I got them now. I'll add alt text too. Don't worry about the delay, I saw after I pinged you that you had been off wiki for a few days. No biggie, WP:NODEADLINE and all. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:21, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Great stuff. Yep, now happy with everything. Congrats on the GA, and good luck with FAC if you do choose to pursue it! Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 12:47, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! – Muboshgu (talk) 15:23, 1 July 2022 (UTC)