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Contested deletion!

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Played minor roles in the films. In Kahanni, it was one scene.
- There is only one line in the article –the name of the film!
Well known Bengali theatre personality. Have been acting in lead roles for many years now. Have worked with two or three best theatre groups of Kolkata. --Tito Dutta ✉ 13:05, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From the A little twist in 'Kahanni' article, "The entire length of Riddhi's role encompasses a conversation with Vidya" and it was a total of 3 days of shooting. I'm probably one of the few that reads the refs. Bgwhite (talk) 18:21, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]


four were directed by his father in a children's theatre troupe
-Swapnasandhani is not a children theatre troupe, it is an NSD, INT and Sangeet Natak Akademi supported group which has staged plays like Darjiparar Marjinara or Hargaz, first one deals with prostitution and second one is a dark play (see the linked newspaper articles).
"Koushik Sen or Kaushik Sen (there is an ongoing discussion on the correct spelling), is one of the most prominent theatre personalities in West Bengal/India! --Tito Dutta ✉ 14:45, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From Theatre for a cause article, "A play with a message and a contest of one-act plays, that is what actor Kaushik Sen and his theatre group, Swapnasandhani, has lined up for children this December. " A theatre troupe made of children for children.
From the INT bit, "It gives intensive training to young college students and artistes in the various aspects of theatre and a theatre workshop is also attached to the Institute" Sounds like it is not professional theatre, but student theatre.
Who supports the theatre really doesn't make it more or less important. U.S. actors give money and support to theatre groups and that has no bearing. Now if Aishwarya Rai gave some money, that would be different. I still say I'm going to marry her, despite what my wife or her husband says. She is a goddess, drool....
I can base my judegement on what the refs say. They don't say he was a main actor in professional theatre productions. I don't see where it passes WP:NACTOR as we are not talking multiple notable stage performances. I don't see it passing GNG as only one article is really about him. With what he has done and who his father is, I have no doubt he will be notable someday. Bgwhite (talk) 18:21, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Who supports the theatre really doesn't make it more or less important
Reply: 1) If it is a Government organization it is important! and 2) it (or the popularity of Swapnasandhani) shows that that theatre group is one of the most popular ones of West Bengal. So, it should be seen from this point of view that this youngster has been acting for many years in one of the most prominent groups of Wst Bengal
Comment: A theatre troupe made of children for children.
Reply: See above the examples Darjiparar Marjinara or Hargaz. A children theatre group does not stage prostitution related drama or dark play. There are many more examples like– Birpurush, deals with political violence. Continuous works with matured subject denies the statement— "A theatre troupe made of children for children."
Comment:' Now if Aishwarya Rai gave some money...
Reply: Government sponsorships are more important than personal donations.
And more importantly as far I can understand, we are only discussing Swapnasandhani's achievement here because of your comment
Comment: four were directed by his father in a children's theatre troupe,
So, if this point is already established that Swapnasandhani is one of the most famous contemporary Bengali theatre groups, we can leave this topic and discuss on Riddhi Sen only (since the article is on him). What do you think?
(creating subsection below).--Tito Dutta ✉ 19:33, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Where the money comes from does not make a theatre troupe more or less notable. Where Sen has acted also does not matter. 99% of all theatres in the US receive government funding. If one is a professor at University of Cambridge or Harvard University, it does not make one more or less notable. Nothing you have said makes Swapnasandhani the "one of the most famous" theatre groups. The Aishwarya Rai comment was meant as a joke.
So, we have one ref saying, "Kaushik Sen and his theatre group, Swapnasandhani, has lined up for children this December" This is an obvious ref for a children's theatre. Then we have your Darjiparar Marjinara and Hargaz refs mentioning nice things about prostitution and violence. So, he has done children's theatre and "serious" theatre.
The Hargaz ref is very telling.
"Talk us through the production... There is my usual team of actors".
"My wife Reshmi plays Elissa and another bit part. There are four child actors in this play, they are the lost students of a Hargaj school. One of them is (son) Riddhi."
So he uses the same team of actors. The same plays of his father's that Riddhi has been in, other actors have probably been in all the same plays.
Riddhi is just part of four child actors and he doesn't stand out in the play. Bgwhite (talk) 08:36, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Riddhi Sen

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Comment: They don't say he was a main actor in professional theatre productions.
Reply:

  • See Saturday, June 03, 2006 Telegraph newspaper coverage: Clearly mentions "Of the two plays in which Riddhi Sen (Koushik and Reshmi?s six-year old son) played the lead, Banku Babur Bondhu was certainly more memorable mainly because everything from the script (an adaptation of Satyajit Ray?s story), props, light and sound effect were perfectly balanced. Bhalo Rakkhosher Galpo, with its large cast of youngsters and a powerful performance by Chitra Sen, remained ungainly even in its 48th presentation." (it seems they have mixed up apostrophe and question mark here, anyway, let's quote correctly as they have written)!
  • See Saturday, October 06, 2007 Telegraph coverage: "I am sure the rest of the cast will agree that this show revolves around him — perfectly natural, charming yet vulnerable, not a word tripped over or gesture extra — the first of many brilliant lead performances to come, one hopes." I request you to spend some time here and re-read the remark as it once again indicates Riddhi playing lead role of a popular play. The same article also shows Riddhi has been acting for many years now- It almost seems like Amal’s role had been awaiting young Riddhi Sen, whose parents had placed him on stage as soon as he could walk
  • Sunday , May 23 , 2010 Telegraph coverage shows once again that Riddhi is playing lead role of Birpurush too. Also see the snap they have added in the review, it shows Riddhi (and it is known issues in Newspapers reviews generally photos of very important scenes of a film or theatre is added depicting main characters).
  • See Saturday, July 31, 2010 Telegraph newspaper coverage: ..."we see them, the true stars (Riddhi Sen, Rabindranath Jana, Debarati Sikdar,...." --Tito Dutta ✉ 19:33, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
More
  • Times of India interview where it is clearly told he has acted in 14 major productions.
  • in this article it is described he is working in theatres for eight years and acted in lead roles in 7 plays and has described him as child prodigy.
  • Awards: Already received couple of awards from Nehru Children's Museum, and Sundaram Award'08 for Best Child Actor (also Special Talent Award of South Point 2010)

Qualifies a child artist who has been working in theatres for last eight years (some people consider him "child prodigy"). --Tito Dutta ✉ 18:12, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, been busy. I'll get to it in about 8hrs. It's mother's day here and I have to go to the spawn of Satan, er, my mother-in-law's house. You clearly contest the Prod, so might as well take it down. I'm in no rush to delete the article if it comes to that. Also, I've seen you around and respect your work. I always give more thought to editors I respect. Bgwhite (talk) 21:53, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I've read everything. I couldn't read the Times of India interview as it was behind a pay site. However, it is an interview, so you can't use it to establish nobility.
The first four articles were reviews of the plays in which Riddhi Sen is barely mentioned. In order to establish nobility per GNG, the articles have to have significan't coverage about him.
In the last references, it is a PR piece promoting shows. It also said Riddhi has been in 7 shows, while other refs have mentioned more shows. Looks like there is no firm number on shows.
So, combined with what I've said from up above and here... Haven't established he is in a notable theatre group. The theatre group uses the same actors over and over again. Riddhi's parts have ranged to small to leads. I can't tell if his lead parts are in the one-act children's plays or how important they are. There are no independent, reliable references that talk about him significantly. Bgwhite (talk) 08:36, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: It also said Riddhi has been in 7 shows, while other refs have mentioned more shows.
Reply:One word missing "Main cast"– For the last 8 years he has been in the main cast for over 7 plays. it seems in other plays he was not protagonist. But he has played lead roles (some have been mentioned above with references– Birpurush, Dakghar, Bhalo Rakhosher Golpo, Banku Babur Bondhu etc..)
Comment: However, it is an interview, so you can't use it to establish nobility.
Reply: No, it does not! It has not been added in the article. But, in this talk it shows Times published his interview two years before in their newspaper.
Comment: one-act children's plays
Reply: he he! Read the Telegraph review of Birpurush where — the play deals with Politics, Communism, violence etc, in June 2, 2010, 12.00am IST Times Of India interview you can see there is a misconception about it being a children's play and There is some amount of violence in the play too. As the performance began, many children left the auditorium.
The good point is at least this has been established this youngster has been working for few years now. And he has worked in lead roles in multiple plays (Telegraph references above etc). If you can't read Bengali, let's avoid Bengali references for now.
The thing which remains to be proved (the doubt you have in your last post) – is he working in a notable and professional group as you have said– Haven't established he is in a notable theatre group.? Going to try to comment on it too– (new sub section) --Tito Dutta ✉ 10:28, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is Riddhi working in a notable and professional group?

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Waiting

Update: Waiting for a reply! --Tito Dutta ✉ 20:18, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My ssd died on my laptop. Going without Wikipedia for 36 hours is miserable. I didn't know what to do and I actually had to talk to the wife. The above you linked to does show that Kaushik Sen is an important artist. I never had doubts about that. But, it still doesn't show the importance of his son. If somebody worked in Broadway theatre of New York or the West End of London, the most important theatre districts in the world, it does not make the actor automatically notable. Any of those actors would still need refs that are about them. I'm removing the Prod because you do contest it. I don't think the two of us going back and forth will result in an agreement, which is just fine. We both have our views and both of us make valid points. I'll bring it up to AfD and let 3rd parties decided. I won't do it for atleast a couple of days as I'm backed up. Bgwhite (talk) 05:59, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It shows– he has been acting in a prominent theatre groups for 6-7 years Take your time. --Tito Dutta ✉ 21:50, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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