Talk:Richard (son of William the Conqueror)

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"Duchy of Bernay" [sic]

Something about this "title" mistakenly interpreted from the tomb in the south aisle of Winchester Cathedral choir should be included, and the article's title amended, perhaps to Richard of Normandy.

Two versions of the 16th-century inscriptions (of the time of Bishop Fox) are given in Percival Lewis Historical inquiries, concerning forests and forest laws, with topographical remarks upon the ancient and modern state of the New Forest (London 1811, p. 61): one is

Intus est Corpus Ricardi

Wilhelmi Conquestoris Filii

et Beorniæ Ducis

Lewis gives the citation from Milner, [i.e., History and Antiquities of Winchester] ii. p. 54; also Speed, 1676 vol. i, ch. 7, p. 13.

The other is

Hic Jacet Richardus Willi. Senioris Fillius et Bæorn. Dux

as given in "Sandford p. 8", that is Francis Sandford, A Genealogical History of the Kings of England p. 8.

The confusion over the patently non-existant title "Duke of Bernay" was clarified by James Robinson Planché's note, "An erroneous inscription in Winchester Cathedral", Journal of the British Archaeological Association 14 (1858:284-87).

The inscriptions on the south aisle of the choir were first noticed by Francis Sandford who copied them with an engraving, to which he copies a marginal note "Bernay ubi Abbathia pulchercima [sic, pulcherrima] in la Balliage d'Alenson in Normandy", giving as source Philippus Brierius, Parallela geographiæ veteris et novæ, vol. 1, pt 2 book 7, ch 4, p 398.

No title "Duke of Bernay" ever having existed, Richard's only title being "son of the King", Mr Planché, Rouge Croix Poursuivant, notes the original of the confusion in the conflation of inscriptions concerning two distinct individuals: "Richard, son of King William the Elder, and the Saxon chief Beorn, nephew of king Canute, who was treacherously murdered by his cousin Sweyn during the reign of Edward the Confessor". Planché gives a translated passage on the murder from the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle Planché attributes the error to the obliteration or omission of a mark of abbreviation, the inscription as originally intended, apparently having read Hic Jacẽt [Jacent] Ricardus Willi' [Willielmi] Senioris Fil' [Filii] et Beorn Dux: "Here lie Richard, eldest son of William and the dux Beorn.

I leave the renaming of this article to you all, with the hope that you will select the least obscure title possible.--Wetman (talk) 23:51, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nephew Richard

"In a twist of fate, his younger brother, King William Rufus, and a nephew, also named Richard, were also killed in the New Forest twenty-five years later." Whose son was this nephew ? RGCorris (talk) 16:28, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot find any source of this and as it is unsourced I have deleted it. Dudley Miles (talk) 16:42, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ancestry

Hello, I have an idea to add his ancestry:

Ancestors of Richard (son of William the Conqueror)^[1]^[2]

16. Richard I of Normandy^[5]

8. Richard II, Duke of Normandy^[5]

17. Gunnor^[5]

4. Robert I, Duke of Normandy^[5]

18. Conan I, duke of Brittany^[5]

9. Judith of Brittany^[5]

19. Ermengarde-Gerberga of Anjou^[5]

2. William the Conqueror^[1]^[4]

10. Fulbert of Falaise^[5]

5. Herleva of Falaise^[5]

11. Doda or Duxia?

1. Richard (son of William the Conqueror)^[1]^[3]

24. Arnulf II, Count of Flanders^[7]

12. Baldwin IV, Count of Flanders^[7]

25. Rozala of Italy^[7]

6. Baldwin V, Count of Flanders^[1]^[6]

26. Frederick of Luxembourg

13. Ogive of Luxembourg^[7]

27. Irmtrud of Wetterau?

3. Matilda of Flanders^[1]^[4]

28. Hugh Capet^[8]

14. Robert II of France^[8]

29. Adelaide of Aquitaine^[8]

7. Adela of France, Countess of Flanders^[1]^[6]

30. William I of Provence^[8]

15. Constance of Arles^[8]

31. Adelaide-Blanche of Anjou^[8]

Sources:

Bernard Burke, Ashworth P. Burke (1934). A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage. 1934
Frederick Lewis Weis, Walter Lee Sheppard, William Ryland Beall, Kaleen E. Beall. Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700: Lineages from Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Other Historical Individuals. 2008 ISBN 0806317523, ISBN 9780806317526

References

^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage, pp 26, 32
^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 105, 109, 118, 123, 142, 157
^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 118, 123
^ ^a ^b Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 118, 157
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f ^g ^h ⁱ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 118
^ ^a ^b Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 156–157
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 156
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 105, 109, 142

Dmitry Azikov (talk) 17:40, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's excessive. Celia Homeford (talk) 08:43, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[<ref-1] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage, pp 26, 32

[2] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 105, 109, 118, 123, 142, 157

[3] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 118, 123

[<ref4-4] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 118, 157

[<ref5-5] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f ^g ^h ⁱ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 118

[<ref6-6] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 156–157

[<ref8-7] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 156

[<ref7-8] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 105, 109, 142

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