Talk:Rebecca Lee Crumpler

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2019 and 12 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tdiscioglu.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 March 2020 and 4 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kmpittman. Peer reviewers: LillianPittman, Macenzie77, Abryhiaaa.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 August 2020 and 7 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): VOBY Sloane.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Source for NIH Proof?

Is there a link or source to prove that? Would like to see that source to confirm. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tdiscioglu (talk • contribs) 20:58, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Tdiscioglu, I am not understanding your question. What needs to be checked? I have made a lot of edits to the article, checking sources to content, improving sources, etc. so I am not sure that there is still an issue, but I wanted to check in with you so I don't miss something.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:46, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Recent edits

There are some recent edits to:

• Remove content from infoboxes... I am not sure why, these are standard fields for infoboxes
• The place of birth somewhere along the line had been changed to Christina, Delaware, but the source says that she was born in Delaware. To add a town or city, a source is needed.
• There are also some unhelpful edits that are acts of vandalism.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:09, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I found a source for her birth place.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:47, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I also removed the image requests - there are no known photographs of Rebecca Crumpler.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:50, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

People who have researched Dr. Crumpler know there are no known photos or images of her. The foreign language translations of this article don’t seem to know that. Is there a way to fix this? If you know how to delete photos from the translated articles please do so! Lee Price (talk) 20:18, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Lee Price,

I am just seeing this. Yes, there are 12 articles in other languages. The approach would be similar to what is in the article now. See #Images with a statement and a source.

Are you interested in splitting up the articles. My intention would be to translate the sentence Although no photographs or other images of Crumpler survive,[35][36] a Boston Globe article described her as "a very pleasant and intellectual woman and an indefatigable church worker. Dr. Crumpler is 59 or 60 years of age, tall and straight, with light brown skin and gray hair."[37] to the target language (and then I usually translate back again to English to see what happened / if it makes sense). Interested in dividing and conquering?–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:15, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I went to make changes in the Arabic item (first of the 12 languages) - couldn't figure out how to add citations for the content and remove the image.

But, I put in a request to rename the file [:https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rebecca-Lee-Crumpler.jpg here]. Hopefully that will take care of it.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:02, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I removed the file from all the pages that it was posted on.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:41, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Atlanta

An IP user added some content that Crumpler also taught in Atlanta. I am not finding a reliable source for that. It cannot be added to other cited content where that's not covered, so I rolled back the edit here.

If anyone finds a source, I am happy to double check it is reliable and properly format the citation and language. Just leave a note here.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:01, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Comment about the article

This article is well written. It is informative but does not focus enough on Crumpler's life as a physician. Why is basically the same information that is in the lead restated in the body of the article? Kmpittman (talk) 22:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)Kmpittman

• Kmpittman, I am hoping to better understand you. There are four paragraphs about her career:

Career

Nursing and medical school

Doctor

Educator

A Book of Medical Discourses

Are you saying the "Doctor" section needs more info? Other? Do you have reliable secondary sources for greater detail?

• I am confused by your comment about the Intro, which is supposed to summarize the article. What were you expecting to see there that you are not seeing - or vice versa?–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:12, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Rebecca Lee Crumpler/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: SusunW (talk · contribs) 16:56, 10 April 2020 (UTC) I'll do this one CaroleHenson. You know I am slow, but I'll get through it as quickly as I can.

Hello! Thanks so much for taking this on! I don't think you are so at all, SusunW. It takes time, it's the nature of the beast. This is one of my favorite articles, so I am really looking forward to sprucing it up!–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:36, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Photos

• Need more info on Joy Street photo, page number of book is 16 but it says the source is the LOC. Need to confirm with LOC no author known, when it was published (2004 book publication is only valid PD if you can prove the photo was never published before 2003 and that it dates to before 1900), and add a US PD tag.

I removed the image. I couldn't find the image at the Library of Congress. I added a parenthetical statement that it's on the Boston Women's Heritage Trail with a citation (from the caption).–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:01, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• Correct date on A Book of Medical Discourses, it was published per the image in 1883.

Yes, I see 1883 in the intro, in the section about the book, and the citation. Where does the date need to be corrected?–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:01, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

On Commons in the "Summary" section. It says 1895, which is her year of death, not when it was published. SusunW (talk) 19:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Gotcha!  Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:46, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

This section is done.

Lede

• Phrase primarily for poor women and children should follow medicine, not Boston.

I cannot believe I did that, it's one of my pet peeves. Thanks for finding it!  Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:10, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• Link racism and sexism.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:10, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• The structure of the 2nd paragraph is a bit confusing. Did she have something to do with recruiting medical students or funding for schools? Possibly The great need for medical providers encouraged other black people to join the medical profession. Black charitable organizations and white missionary organizations provided funding for the first black medical schools should precede her entering medical school?

Well, she was a leader / pioneer, she didn't ride the wave, she helped create the wave. I removed it until or if I can find a source that mentions that she was a leader of the growth of African American physicians.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:10, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

This section is done.

Copyvio

• Earwig shows a high confidence of violation with this article published in February 2017. Going to the history of our article in January 2017, and physically doing a line by line comparison, it is clear that target health virtually copied what was in the existent WP article. Similarly the high confidence of violation with After School Region 3 blogspot published on 14 February 2014, shows it is a word for word borrowing of the WP article as it appeared on 11 February 2014. The high incident report on Changing the Face of Medicine's site is related to names and direct quotes. Based on this analysis, the WP article preceded those that mirror its information and there do not appear to be copy violations.

Thanks for your thorough efforts!–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:13, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Early life

• Insert page number 23 for Fay as a source.
• After "infirm neighbors", flip sourcing to numerical order.

Both  Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

This section is done.

Nursing and medical school

• Insert page number 23 for Fay as a source, the page number needs to be inserted for this reference throughout the article.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:22, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• Each paragraph should clearly identify the subject for the first time. In Due to her talent, she replace "she" with Crumpler.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:22, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• Lee Crumpler graduated is confusing. We do not know who this is. In the previous section you told us only that Davis and Crumpler were the same. (It's why I always write chronologically and weave the personal stuff in. It doesn't matter to me if you do that, but we do need to know who Lee is before you start using that term).

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:22, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• She was the first African-American woman in the United States to earn the degree, and the only one to graduate from New England Female Medical College is very close paraphrasing. Can you reword or quote it directly?
• In the early 1870s, Crumpler attended the elite West Newton English and Classical School in Massachusetts,[4][11] where she was a "special student in mathematics." Seems to dangle as isn't really related to her medical training, nor is it in chronological order. Perhaps it is better placed at the beginning of "Educator" section?

Yes, that is better.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:22, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

This section is done.

Physician

• Move the phrase primarily for poor African-American women and children to follow medicine.

I broke it into two sentences so it's not worded the same as in the Lede.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:44, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• By the time she, replace "she" with Crumpler.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:44, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• Why is Joy Street significant? Perhaps you should tell us that she moved to Joy Street? (Pfatteicher in Gates, et al says she lived at 67 Joy Street.)

I reworded the small paragraph. Does that work?–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:44, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

This section is done.

Educator

• Any idea what she taught?

I have no idea. I am guessing it could be mathematics and/or literature, for which she was skilled and interested, but I have no idea. I searched for this extensively when working on the article and I just went searching through old school yearbooks on Ancestry to see if I could find her listed as a teacher, but no luck.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:04, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

No problem, just curious. This section is done.

A Book of Medical Discourses

• In 1883, she, replace "she" with Crumpler

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• At the time, many early African-American authors have had their writings and books include prefaces and introductions that have a white male sounding authentication." Perhaps: At the time, writings and books by African-American authors had prefaces and introductions written in the style of white male writings to give them authentication.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• and is also should be past tense, was also.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

This section is done.

Personal life

• While living in Charlestown, she replace "she" with Davis (or you could use Crumpler, though that seems odd to me as that came after Lee).

To avoid confusion in this section, for these edits, I am going to use her full name at the time of marriage. See what you think. Here it's Rebecca Davis.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• Insert comma after 1852

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• She married Arthur Crumpler replace "she" with Lee.

Here I used "Rebecca (née Davis) Lee"–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• Crumpler was a former fugitive replace Crumpler with Arthur.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• went to Robert Adams' son Went to implies to me that they had a choice. The article about it is a bit confusing, as it says that John Adams refused to allow him to be sold and he was instead "bid in". What does that mean?

Re, "bid in" seems to be "bid in competition" with people who monopolized the auction process through some sort of agreement with the auctioneer. See this. There was a wrestling contest on the day of the estate auction between Arthur and John Adams. Arthur won a match with John Adams, who decided to keep Arthur for himself—rather than sell him. So, I am guessing it somehow played into his inheritance. And, since Arthur instigated the match, I think that there was some sort of decision made on Arthur's part to stay with the Adams family, if he could make that happen. I reworded that part a bit. See what you think.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:44, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Looks good to me.

• where his family went same issue as above, they had no choice. Perhaps the whereabouts of those who purchased his family, or where his family were dispersed?

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:43, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

• 20 Garden Street, in what place?

Boston -  Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:43, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

This section is done.

Further reading

• Remove the link to Anthony W. Neal's article, as it is used as a source in the article.

 Done–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:56, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I think that's it. Will go back and check your answers. You are as fast as a bunny :) SusunW (talk) 20:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Lol! You are funny! I am done now.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:55, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Sorry for the time delay. My gardener, who is stuck at home because of our "stay at home" order, wanted my recipe for avocado pesto. I had to type it out, in Spanish (with the autocorrect changing it all grrrrrrrrr) so his wife can make it. Fortunately, everything in it is in the garden. :) SusunW (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Avocado pesto, oh my that sounds amazing! I have an avocado that is just today ripened to perfection and am going to look for a recipe myself.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:15, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

On your page CaroleHenson--adjust the portions as you like. SusunW (talk) 21:20, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks much! And, thanks even more for the review of this article. It's now nicely polished!–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Checklist

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Images

I was able to find images of Rebecca Lee Crumpler but noticed this article says none survived. Not sure what to make of that or know how to add a graphic image to a wiki article, but it bothered me that there is a picture of her husband but the article says none exist of Dr Lee Wikikatzed (talk) 19:32, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

@Wikikatzed and Jamzze:

I am seeing that MaoClare removed the photo in the article and stated that there is not a verified photo of Rebecca Lee Crumpler.

In the article, there is a sentence that states that there is no surviving photo of Crumpler and this is the source, which explains who the images are believed to truly depict. See also this New York Times article. I will add that as a source to the article.–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:44, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

See also more recent replies at #Recent edits.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:16, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

homeopathy

I can find no evidence that Dr. Crumpler was trained in or practiced homeopathy. The Directory of Deceased American Physicians lists her as an “Allopath”. Homeopathy at B.U. came later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.69.123.20 (talk) 15:16, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

There's nothing in the article that says that she practiced homeopathic medicine, just that she was influenced by it.

The sentence in the article is Although her primary focus was on the health of women and children, which seemed to be influenced by homeopathy, Crumpler recommended courses of treatment without stating that the treatment was homeopathic.

I am not able to see into the cited source, but I found, "It may be these considerations that led some to assert that important pioneers like Mary Thompson and Rebecca Crumpler, who graduated from NEFMC, were 'homeopathically trained'" here. See also "The New England Female Medical College supported the homeopathic approach to medicine here.

I also thought back to her aunt when reading that statement.

Do you have a suggested way to reword that? It would be really good to know the passage in the cited source.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:09, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Recent edits (July 2023)

I made several edits to the article here, so I thought I would summarize where I am coming from.

• Fairview Cemetery is actually a disambiguation page, so I changed the link to Fairview Cemetery (Boston, Massachusetts). There were a lot of links to that article, I think I removed 1 or 2 links.
• In general, there are a lot of links in the page (See MOS:OVERLINK). A lot. There still are. So, I trimmed down the multiple instances of the same links and links to common words. Perhaps the number of links could be trimmed down by only linking to the first instance (e.g., American Civil War, Boston - especially where they are relatively common words/phrases)?
• African American does not need to be hyphenated, that's actually dated usage. See CJR style guide for race. (Even though the main article is African Americans, there are still some subordinate articles and categories with the hyphen. Perhaps a discussion for another day.)
• This may be more of a personal preference, particularly for pages that already have a lot of links, but I find it is easier to read articles without red links... again "particularly" where there may not be sufficient notability for separate articles. For instance, I don't think there is much information published by reliable sources for articles about her husbands. See MOS:REDLINK
• Changed freed slaves to [[Freedman|freedmen and freedwomen]], my thought process is similar to slaves-->enslaved people.
• Edit "intense racism" to "[[racism|intense racism]]"
• Language for the link similar to what a reader will find: "...to a predominantly African-American community [[List of addresses in Beacon Hill, Boston|street]] to "... to a predominantly [[List of addresses in Beacon Hill, Boston|African American community]]

When I saw the link for "street", I thought the link would go to Street, which seems silly to link to.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:20, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

• Edit "Friends of the Hyde Park Library" to "Friends of the Hyde Park Library (Hyde Park Library)" - this may be a style thing, but it looks awkward to link part of a name of something. This is my best thought at the moment to handle that. There may be another, better option.

If I have made some changes that you may think are incorrect, it would be good to know and come up with a good alternative.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:42, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Inserted MOS:REDLINK and MOS:OVERLINK to the original post.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:29, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I went ahead and trimmed a few more links.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:40, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Poetry

Jcejhay, I am so sorry that I reverted your edit. I did it accidentally and didn't know it until I went to my watchlist and saw that I made a change to this article. I have put it back in.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

No worries, @CaroleHenson—thank you for catching and fixing the error, and letting me know! Jcejhay (talk) 11:10, 20 March 2024 (UTC)