Talk:Raynaud syndrome

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I would like correct pronunciation of Raynaud -- Is it pronounced ray - nawd or ray-no? Does anyone know? I have heard it both ways and have used it both ways -- only to be corrected!

Thanks. JC

I have been told "ray-NOSE" (possessive, as in the title of the article). So "Raynaud" would probably be "ray-NO" Just my input. Baccyak4H 03:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

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Use of Urea to relieve symptoms of Raynaud's Syndrome

I have had some type of Raynaud's Syndrome for more than 30 years and just succeeded in curing it in me. In recent years (I am 55) during winter my fingers became so white so frequently that my fingernails stopped growing and/or were reabsorbed. Thus I was bleeding all the time where the nail was supposed to be.

Somewhere I read that using a cream containing urea seemed to solve many nail problems, so two months ago I started applying a cream with 20% urea. My nails have completely grown back, and (as an example) I have just come back in from shovelling snow in -10C weather and all my fingers look normal.

Obviously this is anecdotal (or might be considered "original research") and wouldn't apply to everyone with this condition, which must have many causes. Given that would it be appropriate to add a sentence or two to the article suggesting that this might work for some sufferers?

Friar Broccoli 20:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC) .................................................................

i think that the calcium channel blockers(nifidepine) and the angiotensine 2 receptor blockers(losartan) arenot the only suitable therapeutic ttt for raynaud`s disease but also we can use an alpha receptor blockers . and due to the side effects of a nonselective alpha blocker (phenoxypenzamine,phentolamine) which will produce an indirect sympathetic stimulation.we can use a selective alpha one blocker (such as prazosin). all i wanna ask about is what is the other name of raynaud`s syndrome(in latine)? thx alot

Pronunciation/Treatment

I've been diagnosed with Raynaud's Phenomenon for a few years, so I have some input. It's pronounced ray-NAWD not ray-NOSE. And it is commonly treated with Celebrex which stops some of the swelling, and also with a calcium channel blocker such as Plendil. And Friar Broccolli, are you sure the fingernail issue is entirely the Raynaud's? I've never had that problem, although that is not a definite reason. I'm just curious, because it sounds like you could have one of the associated issues like rheumatoid arthritis which tends to cause problems like that. If you could let me know I'd be curious- if only to prevent it on myself (I know it sound selfish). Thanks. ~Daisytoes

Primary versus Secondary

As of today Wikipedia states:

"Unilateral Raynaud's, or that which is present only in the hands or feet, is almost certainly secondary, as primary Raynaud's is a systemic condition. However, a patient's feet may be affected without their realising."

In my readings, I have found that primary Raynauds means no other cause have been found for the Raynaud's. Whereas secondary Ryanaud's happens due to another disease. I also have been diagnosed with primary Raynaud (meaning I have no other cause for the Raynaud's) and it only occurs on my hands and feet, so I'm having a hard time understanding and believing the above sentence. I don't want to change or delete the above sentence from Wikipedia because I'm not a doctor, but I feel it gives false information.
Thank you.
Kathy 00:57, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

K may essentially be objecting to ambiguous wording:

"Only in the hands or feet"

has two possible constructions:

1. "either only in the hands, or only in the feet"
2. "nowhere else but in the hands and/or feet")

(where #2 is not an absurd construction, since ears and/or nose also may be affected).

Likewise,

"Unilateral Raynaud's, or ..."

could be construed as

"Unilateral Raynaud's, which is to say, ..."

(which is a tempting but wrong construction, since "unilateral" means "on one side only"; it cannot mean "either only in the hands, or only in the feet", nor can it mean "nowhere else but in the hands and/or feet").

If i understand what she is saying, i think she would find her information consistent with this rewording:

Primary Raynaud's is a systemic condition. Thus it is almost never present when the symptoms are unilateral (i.e. only on the left side, or only on the right), nor when they affect only the feet, nor when they affect only the hands. (However, a patient's report of hands-only symptoms may be mistaken, since feet are not only likely to be kept warmer, but also observing their color changes usually takes much more effort.) So an accurate report of Raynaud's symptoms in fewer than both hands and both feet almost certainly implies secondary Raynaud's.

--Jerzy•t 07:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Another perhaps problematical wording in this context is, IMO, inviting too straightforward a construction of idiopathic. My dr. was not satisfied to rule out secondary for me by running down a checklist of symptoms that i lack. Rather, he asserted that i had no reason to expect any of those symptoms to emerge in the future, and that this was bcz my memory of the (until now undiagnosed) bilateral symptoms in hands and feet goes back enough years that if my Raynaud's were secondary, some more frightening symptoms should have emerged already.
(And while this is my own sheer speculation, i conjecture -- after some further reading -- that he also weighed my age, and the consequent likelihood that i'd remember symptoms from another decade or two earlier, if i hadn't been such a late bloomer in winter hiking and mountaineering. If i know him, he might well have preferred to rely on what he did say to reassure me, rather than complicating the discussion by piling on further evidence.)
--Jerzy•t 07:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Category:Autoimmune diseases

I've added this article to the category above (which is the category for all articles related to autoimmunity), as Raynaud's phenomenon is caused mainly by a variety of Autoimmune diseases, as is also explained the article. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 15:12, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The name RAYNAUD is a French name and therefore "the most correct" pronounciation is the French one, which would be RAY-NO and certainly not RAY-NAWD. Consequently RAYNAUD'S phenomenon should be pronounced as RAY-NO's (or RAY-NOSE). Americans who tend to disagree, please remember that where americans pronounce PARIS as PERR-IS, French people pronounce it as PAH-REEH. Another nice example for illustration is the city of NICE which in France is pronounced as KNEE-S rather than NAI-S as in "nice try". Hope you all trust this french speaking European guy in this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.131.10.158 (talk) 19:02, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the thought, but French pronunciation of French names is just an interesting sidelight, since the pronunciations in these English-language articles are supposed to reflect English-language usage, and regarding the conditions, not the people. It would be more important to know if the British pronunciation is influenced more by proximity to France, and what other varieties of English show. (Oh, and sorry if you really met a yank ignoramus who didn't know how to pronounce the city. But the last time i heard that was from my own mouth, when i was in grade school. So more than likely, tho, you were hearing a belligerent yank, who thot they were cleverly insulting you with an intentional mispronunciation. Sorry about that, too.)
--Jerzy•t 05:49, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I am a Brit and a nurse and call it Ray-nawds as do my medical colleagues.  Never heard it called Ray-nose.  Panthro (talk) 19:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

correct pronunciation

Hello JC. The correct pronunciation in French is ray-no. The "aud" ending is pronounced "o" & the "d" is silent. The anglo pronunciation of this french word by most anglo speaking people is probaby ray-nose, keeping the french "o" ending & adding an apostrophe "s". But who knows some anglos might even pronounce the d also, e.g., ray-nodes. Formerly 100% fluent in french. Ft Lauderdale, FL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.144.63.232 (talk) 16:24, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I just had to update the cause of the disease, because in my studies it has been clearly indicated as a vascular disorder marked by vascular insufficiency in the distal parts of the extremities. In my opinion much is missing in regards to this topic. To refer to what was said here earlier. There are 2 forms of raynauds phenomenon, primary and secondary. Primary is idiopathic, meaning a precise known cause is unknown (in regards to why vasospasms occur) , as is with many other primary disorders such as primary interstitial pulmonary fibrosis. Secondary raynauds phenomenon however is associated with autoimmune disease. It may present with scleroderma, but may also be present in systemis lupus erthymatous diseass as well as others. An overall clarification of raynauds and a more thorough article is in order in my opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AriaNo11 (talk • contribs) 12:04, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Treatment: IV Iloprost

I work in a renowned rheumatic diseases centre where we treat our debilitated Raynaud's patients with IV Iloprost infusions on a 6-8 weekly basis. Is this a common treatment method utilised elsewhere? Should it be added to the article - our patients rate it quite highly in reducing symptoms. Panthro (talk) 20:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Time to merge!

Having looked up Raynaud's to find two pages (one called Raynaud's phenomenon, the other Raynaud's disease) I find it confusing and unnecessary to refer to the two overlapping articles. One article in which the difference between "phenomenon" and "disease" is made clear would be far better for most users. I notice that this has been discussed going back to 2004 - it's time to do something about it. Could someone with the necessary knowledge please make the merger? As for the title of the article (ref discussion over whether it should be merged under "Raynaud's phenomenon" or "Raynaud's disease") the logical answer is for these to both be redirects to just "Raynaud's". Meanwhile I hope no-one minds if I tag these pages... Best wishes to all editors. --Weydonian (talk) 20:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Core body temp

After a basic search looking for Raynaud and "core body temp" on the same page, I would conclude there is only anecdotal evidence that there is a link between these 2 exists. (Google can only find user-submitted answer type sites.) Unless someone has a Citation handy, I am going to leave this bit here on the Talk page. I would invite a discussion even if there is a Citation, as I believe that, if it can be Cited, it could definitely be worded better. Exit2DOS ^{• Ctrl • Alt • Del} 14:35, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• For cold-induced Raynaud's episodes, consume a warm-to-hot liquid as soon as possible to warm the body's core temperature. Warming the core can help speed recovery of affected digits, by signalling the body that it no longer needs to conserve warmth by reducing circulation to the extremities.
  • Many people with Raynaud's have experienced a rapid recovery, even while they are still out in the cold with no ability to directly warm the affected hands or feet, after drinking a hot beverage from a thermos.
  • Even better is to get out of the cold and drink lots of hot beverage, while holding the mug itself against the throat or chest to maximize core-warming benefit. If the affected digits include fingers, wrap bare or thinly-gloved hands around the body of the mug instead of holding it by the handle.
    • Suggested liquids include plain hot water, soup, non-stimulant herbal teas, decaf tea, decaf coffee, cocoa, Tang made with hot water, apple cider or other fruit juice.
    • Note: Other hot beverages may be less effective, because of how chemicals like caffiene and alcohol can impact the vascular system -- if no other options are available, try consuming a smaller amount while still benefitting from the warmth-by-contact to hands, throat, chest.

The following was also moved to talk untill such time as a Citation supports it

• Wearing long johns in cold weather will maintain a higher body core temperature which should reduce incidence of Raynauds.

Exit2DOS ^{• Ctrl • Alt • Del} 16:34, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Citation/Sources

Hello, I have been using wikipedia a lot since 2002. But I don't have much experience with editing. On google I found this useful link: http://raynauds.blogspot.com/2012/01/our-observations-conclusions-regarding.html

But I don't know whether it would be appropriate to add the content on wikipedia or not. Even if it is appropriate, I don't know how do it.

Your help/concern is appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.204.42.53 (talk) 14:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: Robbins and Cotran Pathologic Basis of Disease, Professional Edition, 8th ed. (Copyright © 2009 Saunders, An Imprint of Elsevier). Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Voceditenore (talk) 14:21, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

• I have removed the entire "Prevalence" section. Despite the fact that two other references were given, it was actually an uncredited verbatim copy of:

Kumar: Robbins and Cotran Pathologic Basis of Disease, Professional Edition, 8th ed.

It even left in the original footnote designations, e.g. [82], [83]. A preview of the relevant material is available at here at mdconsult.com where the whole book is available for subscribers. Voceditenore (talk) 14:21, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Artificial light colors

Artificial light colors

More natural colors

The skin colors in the current image (at the left) seem to be artificial, or enhanced. I suggest reverting back the image from before 7 october 2008, which has more natural colors. Ceinturion (talk) 20:12, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

No reactions to defend the artificially colored image. Ok, I am going to revert now. Ceinturion (talk) 16:50, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

8-18-13: Those images do not look photoshopped to me. I have raynauds and haven't seen cases quite that bad, but I do not doubt that those images are genuine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.159.63 (talk) 03:44, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, maybe the word photoshopped was too negative. There is another difference. The picture at the right was taken outdoors on an overcast day, which is great for natural skin tone photography. The pictures at the left were taken indoors under artificial light. Ceinturion (talk) 07:16, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

11-16-13: I don't know about the blue, but I have had my hands look like the white and red examples before. They get that way when they're warming up again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.42.216.64 (talk) 21:05, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

12-9-13: As a specialist for this condition, I can say that the first picture that was removed is a very accurate example and what one would see normally in a clinic or at home. It is certainly not fake or abnormal looking in any way. I use that picture in my clinic (which I found on this talk page) to query patients as to their symptoms. I would recommend keeping them both visible. 70.169.152.169 (talk) 16:01, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

12-18-13: I'm not sure why the user Ceinturion has 'presumed' that the colors in the image are photoshopped. I am a doctor in Australia and I took these photos of my brothers hands. He suffers from Raynaud's phenomenon as part of his Systemic Lupus Erythematosus. The images are genuine and unaltered and I think think that they demonstrate the alteration in coloration of the hands in a superior manner to the original. I will await a response to this post with the intention of reverting to them, unless as the contributor above suggested, someone would like to arrange for both images to be visible. Drtcalla (talk) 12:58, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I presumed it because the colors are more intense than most Raynaud's photos on internet, especially the blue. The description page did not mention the background of the photographer. The metadata of the image says it was composed in Adobe Photoshop CS3 Windows. The photos were taken indoors under artificial light, and which white balance was used by the camera is unknown. However, as you are a specialist, let me apologize. Feel free to revert my edit. I will also replace two negative words in this section (photoshopped colors and presumably false > artificial light colors). Ceinturion (talk) 18:30, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

19-12-13: Thanks for prompt reply Ceinturion. Indeed Photoshop was used to reformat the four images into one for ease of uploading, however I can only offer my personal assurance that no alterations to the colours, brightness or contrast were made. I'm no photographer, these were simply taken during the episode for personal interest with a point and shoot digital camera, only later after looking at the Wiki page did we think that these images were worth uploading as better examples. I'm not particularly adept at editing in Wikipedia either, Ceinturion would you like to arrange for both images to be available on this page? Drtcalla (talk) 02:45, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Epidemiology - Primary Raynaud's (disease) - request for clarification of meaning

Does the phrase "smoking *worsens* frequency" mean it increases or decreases frequency?

If both intensity and frequency are increased, then maybe the word "increases" would be clearer than "worsens".

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.111.150.6 (talk) 12:09, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

I changed it to "increases" in accord with your observation, because it's fine that way. But I would just also point out that "worsens" was not particularly unclear, because if something is considered bad/undesirable, then to worsen its frequency is to make it happen more often (not less often). I think that same cognitive pathway would be followed by almost any reader. But your point is well taken, i.e., saying "increases" is even more direct. Quercus solaris (talk) 17:29, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

NEJM

Review doi:10.1056/NEJMra1507638 JFW | T@lk 14:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 1 October 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Cúchullain ^t/c 14:05, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

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Raynaud's → Raynaud syndrome – Sources don't appear to use simply Raynaud's which looks largely meaningless. ICD-10 uses "Raynaud syndrome" and ICD-9 uses "Raynaud's syndrome", other databases call it either "Raynaud's phenomenon" or "Raynaud's disease". As two most recent ICDs use "syndrome", it could be settled that way. Brandmeister^talk 09:53, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose some use the term Raynaud's disease to mean the primary cases only[1] and some use the term Raynaud's syndrome to mean the secondary cases only. Some people use all terms as synonyms. We want a title that makes it clear that this article is not about one or the other but is about both. The term Raynaud's does this and is the term used by the NIH. This ref specifically says "People who have primary Raynaud's (Raynaud's disease) or secondary Raynaud's (Raynaud's phenomenon)"[2] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:36, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

• Support this is the ICD10 preferred name. We and all medical naming conventions are moving away from apostrophied names for ease of use and political reasons. In addition a syndrome is a group of symptoms and many diseases have primary and secondary forms described on the same page. --Tom (LT) (talk) 23:09, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
  • How about simply "Raynaud" than? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:20, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
• Support – The current name does not convey enough meaning to be useful. —    Bill W.    (Talk)  (Contrib)  (User:Wtwilson3)  — 02:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
• Support. The current title is abbreviated, not suitable for introductory purposes. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:36, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Auguste Gabriel Maurice Raynaud

Auguste Gabriel Maurice Raynaud (10 August 1834 – 29 June 1881), is the French doctor who discovered Raynaud syndrome - ought this to be mentioned? Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.163.12 (talk) 13:47, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

This is mentioned in the fourth paragraph. Perhaps some expansion can be made, like a history section.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 13:54, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Alternative medicine

"Evidence does not support the use of alternative medicine, including acupuncture and laser therapy.[3]"

If there is no evidence to support acupuncture or laser therapy, then why enumerate them? Where does this list end? Perhaps it should be modified to state "Evidence does not support the use of alternative medicine, including acupuncture, laser therapy, and coffee enemas." That it's "not supported by evidence" is the definition of alternative medicine. This whole sentence is asinine and should go. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.59.226.7 (talk) 14:58, 7 May 2021 (UTC)