Talk:Rape/Archive 4

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The role of control in rape and its connection to eating disorders

I am exploring this right now and wonder if anyone has thoughts/familiar with the definition of control and privacy. it is linked to rape, ed's and the definition of privacy as well.

Control is a key feature in most definitions of privacy in current literature. It is also a key aspect of sexual assault and the resulting psychological traumas. Many sexual assault survivors suffer from eating disorders which also center around control issues. I am interested in the concept of rape as a violation of privacy rather than as damage of property.

Privacy is not the absence of other people from one's presence but the control over the contact one has with them. (Pedersen, D. 1997).

“Selective control of access to the self” (Margulis, 2003)

“Control over or regulation of or, more narrowly, limitations on or exemption from scrutiny, surveillance, or unwanted access.” (Margulis, S. 2003)

Eating disorders are linked to control issues as this study shows: “Women with eating disorders have less objective control, showing behaviors not conducive to the optimal control of their actions. They also have lower subjective control, which makes it difficult for them to attain control, due to lack of confidence in their abilities. Moreover, they believe that control depends more on powerful others than on themselves…. Results from this study are a first attempt to understand the role of the psychological variable “behavioral personal control” as a protective or risk factor for developing sub- clinical anorexia or bulimia.” (Lugli-Rivero, Z. 2001)

"Rape is not about sex to the rapist; it has to do with control and power." http://www.coolnurse.com/rape.htm --Survivor 05:29, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This seems an interesting point. But I am afraid it sounds original research, which is not included in wikipedia. See Wikipedia:No_original_research. Please don't be discouraged; that's not my intent. -- Taku 10:08, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Taku. Actually I think it is original research which is scarry to me. I just wanted to get some feed back on the subject. I know some of the literature on eating disorders and it doesn't mention sexual assault in particular. You can find journal articles on the subject if you dig around. I did some research on privacy last year and found control to be key. I tied them together and my teacher hated it! Anyway, I am making a web page of my own on it. I just thought someone might have some input. thanks, --Survivor 04:26, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's "original research" if it has not already been published/debated elsewhere. If it has, it isn't. Why it should be scary, I don't know. It depends what the point is. If, as it seems, you are suggesting that there is a psychological link between eating disorders and sexual violations experienced by the sufferer, then find some sources that support that claim. It does not sound inherently implausible. However, at the end you seem to be suggesting something different - that there is some link between the psychology of rape victims and of perpetrators, that sounds more dodgy. Is that what you are implying? Surely in rape is it the perpretrator who is seeking control over other people's bodies, but in anorexia the sufferer is seeking control over their own bodies. The anorexic is proccupied by their own privacy, the rapist negates personal privacy. Paul B 11:41, 26 June 2005 (UTC)

I've encountered the theory not in literature about eating disorders, but in literature about rape survivors. I'll look for something I can cite and try to get it into this article in the next few days. But, the idea as I've seen has never been in terms of privacy. I've only encountered it as rape deprives the victim of any autonomy or control over their body and what happens to them, and so the survivor develops an eating disorder or begins some other form of self-injury because that's the only sort of control she feels she has left to her: "I am choosing to not eat". Anyway, to my knowledge the idea isn't original research. The Literate Engineer 05:58, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

thank you. I have thrown a few ideas together as well. Any input is welcomed. Since this has been up for discussion for a while I started the section. I apologize if it's up somewhere else and I missed it. If so please edit it in if you like. Feel free to correct any mistake's I've made. I'm not sure how much you want to include about rape as a violation of privacy. I think making the link between control in rape and control in eating disorders is more important. I just wanted people to have a place to edit in their ideas other than the talk page. Thank you for your thoughts. --Survivor 06:15, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I have read some reasearch on this, and my impression is that the incidence of eating disorders is not higher in those who are victims of sexual assault--- however, those who are victims tend to connect their disorder to thei sexual assault. It's an interesting topic and I hope good research on it appears. BarkingDoc

Survivor, if I am correct you posit a relationship between an eating disorder sufferer's need for control over his or her identity and a rapist's need for control over his or her identity. I think this is an interesting idea. The power to induce sexual activity through legitimate means (such as charm, beauty, money, or the ability to provide sexual pleasure) is celebrated and admired in many societies as essential to masculinity, just as the power to be skinny and control one's diet is essential to femininity. Through this lens, both rape and eating disorders can be seen as pathological efforts to control one's identity and fulfill social roles for which the individual feels otherwise inadequate. --199.227.167.82 22:01, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Research on the link between eating disorders and sexual assault survivor not logged in yet.

I finally got around to looking up some research on the link between eating disorders and sexual assault, sexual abuse and rape.

Among the most severe crimes

I removed the sentence "It is considered by most societies to be among the most severe crimes." I'm no great comparative penologist, but it seems to me that under the Western definition of rape, most societies today don't care in the least about a very large percentage of rape. Furthermore, I can say with some certainty that at least Biblical Israel and common-law England didn't consider it "among the most severe crimes", based on the various punishments they prescribed for various things. I'd suspect, in fact, that very few societies prescribed the death penalty for rape, ever, where of course that was a relatively common sentence in most societies until recently (although I could be dead wrong about that). So if anyone would like to restore the sentence, I would be interested in seeing sources. —Simetrical (talk) 6 July 2005 07:36 (UTC)

I think you should put the sentence back perhaps with minor revisions. Consider for example, the massive international support of the Pakistani woman who was gang raped by court order. Clearly, the attitude towards rape is changing in countries in which at one time or another it was not even an afterthought. In societies where women's rights are strong and/or where women and men are viewed as equals, rape is likely viewed much more harshly than societies where women are not afforded the same rights. And in societies where women's rights are well-protected, rape definitely is one of the most severe crimes. So perhaps it is better to say something like, "It is considered by many societies (especially those where men and women are viewed as "equals") to be amongst the most severe crimes. In other societies, rape is not considered a severe crime because of tradition, cultural, or religious reasons."

I believe I know where you're coming from. I've had experience with certain people who don't think anything of it, and talk about it humorously. It's mainly the more insensitive macho men of my male gender who do it. It's more common in groups. This is probably why gang-rapes are so horrible and prison raping occurs frequently in groups. As I see it, some people don't seem to be bothered with rape unless it happens to them or someone they love who is 'off limits'. -User:tyciol

Yes, perhaps what you said about Israel about 3000 years ago is true. That was then, this is now. Rape is now, rightfully, a crime in many parts of the world.

I read that most rape in the US in prison rape against males - most of which goes unpunished. Its not important if its not a threat to the lawmakers or their owners - I mean bribers - I mean contributors. 4.250.33.73 11:32, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I think this is very difficult, but that it is important that both sides be depicted in the article. I think part of the difficulty is in identifying a "society" only by its laws-- a country may have laws against a crime which is still accepted or even encouraged by the "society," such as in America with drugs. In many cultures, rape is rampant, it is prominently portrayed in entertainment (positively), and may even be considered a respectable part of social life. I do not think it diminishes the severity of rape to accurately report that many societies do not consider it a severe crime. BarkingDoc 07:34, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

It is considered a "severe crime" and has been for a while. However, most societies do not punish rape in the same sense that they consider it. One might say it is so severe, that society would rather punish the victim because they do not want to think about it (since the victim is most likely to have brought it up as a rapist is unlikely to turn themselves in). We also tend to punish rape victims because we are afraid of rape happening to ourselves or those we care for. We tend to want to believe that the victim is either lying or has done something which has marked him or her for rape. Women who are raped must have been wearing something "too sexy" and men who have been raped must have been raped in prison. I would agree that society thinks it a severe crime, just that we tend to not behave the way we would like to think we would treat a severe crime. Crimes against children are another example of this. Most people would say such crimes are the worst one can do but our legal system and the punishments given out would suggest otherwise. It's because to punish someone, you first have to fully come to terms with what they have done and most people do not have any desire to do that. - 24.7.186.18 23:02, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Photographs of rapes?

Perhaps an explanation for the picture of a broken statue lying in grass would be appropriate. Is it symbolic of sexual rape? Or an artifact from a raped city? Given its location in the article, I would assume the former, but it could well be an misplaced picture from an earlier version of the article. Picture seems appropriate either way, but not clear what its intent is. Tgroch 08:59, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

No one has offered an explanation for the relevance of that photo (which was added at 11:23 on 23 August 2005 by 84.6.18.5), so I deleted it.--Keeves 13:21, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I was just thinking, some nice rape photos would do a lot for this article.

They sure would – none of it good.Paul B 08:02, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC

I wholeheartedly concur. See discussion here. —Simetrical (talk) 16:52, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree that this would be what we in the business call a "very bad idea." -- BD2412 ^talk 23:09, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Based on the ideal that illustrations do add to articles, are there other illustrations anyone can think of which are not depictions of rape but which might be educational or illuminative in another way? BarkingDoc 08:05, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Paul B makes an interesting suggestion, pasted below (Thanks for the link to the archive, Simertrical). Rape of the daughters of Leucippus--Nectar ^T 08:14, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Well if you are looking for a 'tasteful' image of rape, then try one of the many Sabine Women pics, Poussin maybe. Or go for Rubens' Rape of the daughters of Leucippus. Of course they all depict rape in the archaic sense of 'forced abduction'. But they are certainly more tasteful. I don't know why all articles should have illustrations. But even if they should, I can see no reason why it should be an actual explicit depiction of a rape in progress.Paul B 18:51, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Another option would be to use images such as those used on rape crisis sites. Hope inspiring and non triggering images. The clothesline project is one such visual image that would be related to the subject and not triggering to rape victims. http://www.now.org/issues/violence/cloth-t.gif

For any who don't know what that is- it's a women's / survivor's week project in which rape and sexual assault survivors of any gender paint a t shirt with their story about assault and staff hang them across campus to raise awareness.

--Survivor 01:20, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

My 19 Feb comment was in the context of a remark by "Sam Spade" that all articles should have images. On the whole, I don't think an image is actually desirable at all, unless it provides information – such as a graph or maybe a poster used in a controversial or notable campaign, or something else like that. Paul B 10:58 12 Aug 2005 (UTC)

2nd degree rape in the US claim

...fellating a man without his permission is grounds for a charge of second degree rape in the United States.

This claim is unlikely; rape is a state crime and not a federal crime, and thus every one of the 50 states would have had to enact this legislation for this statement to be true. Is it true, or only true in X number of states? Tempshill 22:39, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Cleaning up after rapid edits

As everyone can see, some major edits have just been made in an extremely short span of time, and the re-arrangement of sections within the article makes it hard to spot changes that might be opposed by consensus -- if consensus could spot within the massive red text of the diff where a content change had occurred. I'm listing here some edits which should perhaps get extra attention to make sure that they didn't mask significant changes that would be opposed by consensus:

I've taken a first pass, but I would be egotistical to think I caught everything. Can others do some checking and see how much the text has been altered, and whether it's a change that would pass consensus? -- Antaeus Feldspar 18:10, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

"may have", prevalence of rape fantasy

It is true that "may have taken place" does not communicate that "numerous allegations exist that it took place". However, removing all references to it does not communicate that either.

Likewise, simply checking rape fantasy would have shown that the incidence of rape fantasies is estimated to be around a fourth to a third of the population. Stating that millions of people have these fantasies is therefore a conservative estimate. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:06, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Why not just say it the same way its said there?

Human rights/war

Antaeus, it seems that you are a regular contributor to this growing article...would you be interested in helping me expand the human rights section I created? Would your recent addition (regarding rape and war) fit better there? Thanks! --Dpr 03:33, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, just to clarify, I didn't make any recent "additions", really; everything I've done on this article recently has been restoration of sections that were there before but removed with no explanation or insufficient reason. The most I've done is change the phrasing in a few cases to make clearer why the text was there in the first place.

As for whether the section on 'rape and war' would fit best in a section on 'rape and human rights', well, speaking more generally, I think the article in general needs a good restructuring -- one that's discussed beforehand. The recent unilateral restructuring was not, IMHO, for reasons I will go into if requested. -- Antaeus Feldspar 15:14, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Biblical "taking of the foreskin"

Another form of sexual assault, mentioned in the Bible, is the taking of an opponent's foreskin, though no mention is made of whether the enemies are living or dead. See story of David and Jonathan

The idea that the taking of foreskins for a dowry was a form sexual assault is clutching at straws. It was a method to prove the number of Philistines David had killed for his king. The task was supposed to be impossible so that David would be killed trying but instead managed to complete twice over. I am not trying to justify his actions, just point out that this reference is irrelevant to this article and seems to be trying to implicate a Biblical acceptance of sexual assault.

As to there being "no mention is made of whether the enemies are living or dead"?? what is this trying to suggest? That against their will, in a time of no anaesthetics that David could take foreskins from living grown men? Besides, the quote I have from the [NKJV] (1 Sam. 18:27) clearly states: "therefore David arose and went, he and his men, and killed two hundred men of the Philistines. And David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full count to the king, that he might become the king’s son-in-law. Then Saul gave him Michal his daughter as a wife"

As the second statement is untrue and the first, fairly irrelevant in this context without the second I have removed this section.

vandalism

Someone is vandalising the page, and I prefer not to revert any page more than once every 24 hrs, so... please have a look! Sam Spade 12:50, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Trickey sentence

"Some incorrectly believe that in Middle Eastern societies honor killings may be sanctioned. However, in some cultures rape victims are sometimes killed to restore the family's name." ANyone want to try for soemthing better? Rich Farmbrough 20:38, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Legality of rape in some Mexican states

That's right. I've been told in my historical context class that, before the 1980's, rape was completely legal in some Mexican states like Jalisco, where I'm from. He also said rape was declared illegal after a massive signature raising campaign pushed by an ITESO laws student; however, if you rape your wife, you won't be prosecuted as raping your spouse is legal. If someone has more information on that respect, I'd like to see it added to the article. Da nuke 08:29, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Gaming Usage of Rape

I think the 'gaming usage of rape' section should be deleted or moved to another page, like rape (gaming). It's out of context here and a relatively minor part. Here's the text:

Rape can additionally be used in the gaming community. To "Rape" someone is to overwhelm their skill so immensly, that they did not stand a chance at ever beating you. The term "rape" is not limited to any certain games. It is used in the RPG, RTS, and FPS communities. Although considered by some to be vulgar, the term "Rape" used in games is purly jokingly and should not intend offense but is only simply saying, "i owned you".

Thoughts? delldot | talk 22:09, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Bias crimes against rape survivors

I have been thinking about this for a couple of years. I have noticed that some of the ways in which people "pick on" rape survivors resembles how people "picked on" gay men (for example) in the past. I was wondering why one is politically incorrect (the later) and the other is just how things are. I finally got around to looking up some abstracts on hate crimes in the NCJRS Abstracts Database and found two possible categories of interest.

The first is bias crimes against people with disabilities (PTSD, Rape trauma syndrome and most confusingly and important DID). I think this one is more likely to be immediately recognizable.

The second is bias crimes that are gender based.

Just thought it was worth giving some thought to. I just found this link to http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Femicide It has some information on gender bias crimes as well.

take care, survivor

"Last year the American Psychological Association issued the report

Hate Crimes Today:

An Age-Old Foe in Modern Dress. In the report Dr. Jack McDevitt, a criminologist, stated, "Hate crimes are message crimes. They are different from other crimes in that the offender is sending a message to members of a certain group that they are unwelcome. Preliminary research indicates that hate crimes have more serious psychological effects than non-bias motivated crimes."

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/hatecrimes.html

The Oxford English Dictionary defines a hate crime as:

Hate crime -orig. U.S., a crime, usually violent, motivated by hatred or intolerance of another social group, esp. on the basis of race or sexuality; crime of this type; freq. attrib. (occas. in pl.), designating legislation, etc., framed to address such crime.

Hate speech -orig. U.S., speech expressing hatred or intolerance of other social groups, esp. on the basis of race or sexuality; hostile verbal abuse (though the term is sometimes understood to encompass written and non-verbal forms of expression).

The Department of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation states that "A hate crime, also known as a bias crime, is a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin." http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/

The operational definition of Hate crimes by the HATE-CRIME NETWORK states:

"What makes a crime a hate crime?

The offender and the victim were of different race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, and/or ethnicity/national origin..."

The invisibility of the rape survivor community and the general ignorance of the nature of rape trauma syndrome and PTSD contributes to the frequency of hate crimes and hate speech against rape survivors. The public's unfamiliarity with dissociation, dissociative identity disorder, self injury and other disabilities suffered by rape victims may be a contributing factor.

"Congress amended the Hate Crimes Statistics Act in 1994 to add disabilities as a category for which hate crimes data are to be collected. ...we know from social science research that the pervasive stigma that people apply to both mental and physical disability is expressed in many forms of discriminatory behaviors and practices, including increased risk for sexual and physical abuse. The Judge David L. Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, a national organization representing low-income adults and children with mental disabilities, holds that such hate crimes are motivated by the perception that people with disabilities are not equal, deserving, contributing members of society, and, therefore, it is okay to attack them." TX NAACP

Regarding disability bias hate crimes: "Of the 73 victims of this type of bias, 49 were the subjects of a bias against a mental disability."

Department of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation

In Hate Crimes and Disability in America "the findings and their implications for such issues as alternative manifestations of prejudice, underreporting of violent crimes, cross-disability support for hate crime prevention, rehabilitation counseling practice, and future research directions are discussed."

In Examining the Boundaries of Hate Crime Law: Disabilities and the "Dilemma of Difference" Grattet and Jenness find that "Persons with disabilities represent one of the largest minority groups in the United States. Recent research suggests that the multitude of ways that persons with disabilities are victimized is pronounced and increasing. However, social scientists and policymakers have largely overlooked persons with disabilities." (Grattet & Jenness 2001) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology

"In addition to the other categories of hate crime, gender is increasingly being included as a status category in State and Federal hate crime laws. The current study explored how prosecutors view gender as a status category in hate crime law, specifically in terms of their knowledge of gender-bias violence and their willingness to charge violence against women as a hate crime... The authors recommend adopting an advocacy approach that supports the notion of violence against women as an issue of power and control while at the same time educates and encourages prosecutors and the public to adopt a hate crime perspective on violence against women. " (McPhail & DiNitto 2005) Violence Against Women: An International and Interdisciplinary Journal

Engendering Hate Crime Policy: Gender, the "Dilemma of Difference," and the Creation of Legal Subjects by Valerie Jenness "discusses what feminist legal scholars refer to as "the dilemma of difference" that is inherent in hate-crime policy in the United States...

The author addresses how the dilemma of difference has been managed in the formulation of hate-crime policy in the United States, as it simultaneously addresses the ways in which gender is both distinct from and similar to other status provisions recognized in hate-crime law, i.e., race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc." (Jenness 2003) Journal of Hate Studies

For sexual assault survivors "these negative experiences have been termed "the second rape" ( Madigan & Gamble, 1991 ), "the second assault" ( Martin & Powell, 1994 ), or "secondary victimization" ( Campbell & Raja, 1999 ; Campbell et al., 1999 ; Williams, 1984 ). Campbell et al. ( 1999 ) found that victims of non-stranger rape (e.g., acquaintance rape and date rape) were at particular risk for secondary victimization, which was related to increased psychological distress and delayed recovery." Mental Health Services for Rape Survivors

--Survivor 00:37, 16 December 2005 (UTC)survivor

I would like to start a section on this soon. Any ideas? I think the word bias will go over better than hate. They are really the same thing.

take care, --Survivor 02:02, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and started the page. Here is the text: (i'm sure you can see it on the other page). I edited it down a bit.

"==Bias crimes against rape survivors==

The Department of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation states that "A hate crime, also known as a bias crime, is a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin." FBI

The invisibility of the rape survivor community and the general ignorance regarding the nature of rape trauma syndrome and PTSD contributes to the frequency of hate crimes and hate speech against rape survivors. The public's unfamiliarity with dissociation, dissociative identity disorder, self injury and other disabilities suffered by rape victims may be a contributing factor.

"Congress amended the Hate Crimes Statistics Act in 1994 to add disabilities as a category for which hate crimes data are to be collected. ...we know from social science research that the pervasive stigma that people apply to both mental and physical disability is expressed in many forms of discriminatory behaviors and practices, including increased risk for sexual and physical abuse." TX NAACP

In Hate Crimes and Disability in America "the findings and their implications for such issues as alternative manifestations of prejudice, underreporting of violent crimes, cross-disability support for hate crime prevention, rehabilitation counseling practice, and future research directions are discussed."

In Examining the Boundaries of Hate Crime Law: Disabilities and the "Dilemma of Difference" Grattet and Jenness find that "Persons with disabilities represent one of the largest minority groups in the United States. Recent research suggests that the multitude of ways that persons with disabilities are victimized is pronounced and increasing. However, social scientists and policymakers have largely overlooked persons with disabilities." (Grattet & Jenness 2001) Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology

"In addition to the other categories of hate crime, gender is increasingly being included as a status category in State and Federal hate crime laws. The current study explored how prosecutors view gender as a status category in hate crime law, specifically in terms of their knowledge of gender-bias violence and their willingness to charge violence against women as a hate crime... The authors recommend adopting an advocacy approach that supports the notion of violence against women as an issue of power and control while at the same time educates and encourages prosecutors and the public to adopt a hate crime perspective on violence against women. " (McPhail & DiNitto 2005) Violence Against Women: An International and Interdisciplinary Journal

Engendering Hate Crime Policy: Gender, the "Dilemma of Difference," and the Creation of Legal Subjects by Valerie Jenness "discusses what feminist legal scholars refer to as "the dilemma of difference" that is inherent in hate-crime policy in the United States...

The author addresses how the dilemma of difference has been managed in the formulation of hate-crime policy in the United States, as it simultaneously addresses the ways in which gender is both distinct from and similar to other status provisions recognized in hate-crime law, i.e., race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc." (Jenness 2003) Journal of Hate Studies

For sexual assault survivors "these negative experiences have been termed "the second rape" ( Madigan & Gamble, 1991 ), "the second assault" ( Martin & Powell, 1994 ), or "secondary victimization" ( Campbell & Raja, 1999 ; Campbell et al., 1999 ; Williams, 1984 ). Campbell et al. ( 1999 ) found that victims of non-stranger rape (e.g., acquaintance rape and date rape) were at particular risk for secondary victimization, which was related to increased psychological distress and delayed recovery." Mental Health Services for Rape Survivors

--Survivor 02:09, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Sexual fantasy

This subheading is counter-intuitive and makes allusion to established authorities (law enfourcement officials). So there should be some references to substantiate these claims.--Esprit15d 18:34, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree we need references here. I was talking about this topic with some people and realized that I had nothing solid (no offense wiki) to back my statements with, which I based off this section. So please author, leave a reference. DenimForce 15:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

added to victim blaming

Another theory entails the need to protect one's own sense of invulnerability. This inspires people to believe that rape only happens to those who deserve or provoke the assault (Schneider et. al., 1994). This is a way of feeling safer. If the potential victim avoids the behaviours of the past victims then they themselves will remain safe and feel less vulnerable. If anyone wants to work on the wording of this feel free. I'm more of an organizer than a writer.

--Survivor 01:57, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

new section

--Survivor had just added the following section, which to me seems to be undigested chunks of quotation barely held together as a coherent argument. It is also full of sheer assertion. What is being claimed here, that rape can be defined as a "hate crime"? That seems highly contentious to say the least. There seems to be some argument that "hate speech" against rape survivors is caused by lack of knowledge of PTSD, but it is not clear to me what this "hate speech" is and whether this rather thanb rape is being characterised as a hate crime in thses paragraphs. Altogether, some clarity is needed. Paul B 02:23, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Paul, I wasn't going to add it yet but I thought I may as well. No one responded to my talk post which was up for a while so I went ahead. Any discussion on this is welcome. I am not much of a writer so tend to look for quotes. If anyone thinks they have a good way to put it together (if you agree with the idea) that would be much appreciated. I think bias crime sounds better in this situation as it creates less of a 'dramatic' effect.

You are probably right in that I wasn't clear enough. what I intended to say is that harrassing rape survivors after they have been raped -and are suffering from disabilities that are very hard to understand- qualifies as a hate crime. It is a bias crime against a community of people who are suffering from a disability (rape trauma syndrome- ptsd, eating disorders, dissociatieve disorder - you act like a 7 year old when something upsets you: it gets alot of negative attention, trust me.) I will ask someone to help me write it up from another board.

I am not saying rape is a hate crime but the discrimination I personally faced when I had severe ptsd was definitely abusive. I know alot of other people who have faced a very similar fate. The "second rape" is a well known term which describes this. I am just exploring whether we as a community of survivors count enough to be protected under this law.

Hate speech and acts of hate are detailed here: http://www.ibiblio.org/rcip//testimonials.html http://www.justicewomen.com/cj_second_rape.html http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Abuse/lisk/mystory.htm

I did want a discussion on this as long as everyone is at least fairly nice. Keep in mind that this topic includes both male and female victims.

take care all,

--12.202.60.227 06:44, 21 December 2005 (UTC)survivor

I am hoping this is a better explanation:

Discriminating against someone who is suffering from a disability (such as a mental illness) has been considered a bias crime since 1994. Rape in and of itself is not a bias crime but mistreating people because they are suffering from rape trauma syndrome is. People do not understand much about RTS (rape trauma syndrome) or know what its symptoms are. It is a difficult thing to understand if you have never heard of it. Dissociative Identity Disorder in particular is usually not spoken about openly. That does not mean people you know aren't suffering from it. PTSD is a more commonly recognized aspect of rape trauma syndrome. Other disorders associated with sexual assault are OCD, Eating disorders and Self Injury. According to The National College Women Sexual Victimization Study between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5 college women experienced completed or attempted rape during their college years (Fisher, Cullen, and Turner 2000). Please learn about rape trauma syndrome and it's symptoms before you say or do something to hurt those suffering from it.

--Survivor 02:22, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I am still hoping to add a section that addresses secondary victimization at least. Please let me know what information you think it should include.

thanks, --Survivor 02:22, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Bias crime against rape survivors