Talk:Rage Against the Machine/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Official website

As of 7th June 2007 the official website, http://www.ratm.com/ is back up again.

Genre

Regardeing the genre: Whether you like it or not, RATM was one of the major pioneers of rapcore and they did fuse rap, rock and metal elements. Calling them "rock" is not specific, Rapcore is the genre they pioneered and most of their music was as well. It clearly says ont he front page they were noted for blending those 3 genres. Please, whoever is, stop changing the genre. RAPCORE is the best term for it (which covers Rap / Alternative Rock & Metal)

RAGE ISN'T RAP AT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it's Hard Rock

-rage isn;t RAP, but RAPCORE (metal/rock/hardcore with hip hop elements).

.....core this core that.... The terms rapcore and nu-metal didn't even exist back in 1991 when rage began performing their early work, so what was it called then? I can positively say ratm would never acknowledge the term rapcore as a descriptive label for their music as it is synonymous to all the other 'cores' out there - over used and ill defined. have a quick read of the rapcore page to see what I mean. To say they were a hybrid of the 3 genres would be more justifiable.

- If the genre existed or not isn't really relevant. You can say that they invented the genre. But they aren't metal at all, according to Encyclopaedia Metallum, and most sane people.--193.90.59.237 17:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

This article seems to completely erase the huge infuence the band "URBAN DANCE SQUAD" had on RATM.

• RATM is "Crossover". At least this term is commonly used in Europe and bands like Clawfinger or H-Blockx are considered Crossover too.

live & rare unofficial

The album "Live & Rare" is not an official album.

Actually, it was a Japanese import that was comprised of bootlegs. I am not sure if Rage agreed to its sale, but it was published by Sony so I'm certain it's legit. 12.77.119.31 01:41, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

removal of link to indymind.de

Whats the problem with linking to indymind.de? Its the only german community, its the official forum of ratm.de and will come up with a new wiki with rage content in the new year. so please let the link stay...

rewording

I wouldn't say the original version of the article contains any opinion; it's all incontrovertible fact (it's hard to deny their politics were both articulate and outspoken, and this isn't a comment on the "quality" or "correctness" of those politics). I leave the new stuff in, however, because it's useful information. I'm not sure about "hard left", however, I don't much like it as a term, and it's dangerous when left undefined. This is mostly a personal rant about the inadequacies of the "left wing / right wing" distinction, however. Would you agree with "radical" politics? /me goes to read the recent modifications to the article on radicalism to find out... --AW

Mysterious Fellow Editor, you happy with all this now? --AW

Oooh, I get to be "mysterious". :) If I say "Henry Kissinger is articulate and outspoken" I'm expressing my opinion, not stating a fact. While I, personally, agree that RATM was outspoken and articulate the encyclopedia is supposed to have a Neutral Point of View and only state really solid facts (like who the members are, how many records they sold). Anything else ought to be attributed to a source. Can't do much harm, anyway. And I agree with you on "hard left", but I couldn't think of a decently concise way of stating it. I wanted to give a general idea of their political views, but I didn't know what to use. Meh.

I (respectfully) disagree with regards to this particular instance. I think there's a bit of a blurry boundary between things that are absolutely technically "factual" and things that are probably technically "assertions" but which are so clearly true that there can't be any reason for not considering them factual. I simply cannot conceive of *any* possible standard for "outspoken" or "articulate" under which RAtM's politics wouldn't qualify; can you demonstrate the existence of such a thing? Facts are slippery things; I mean, you say you can happily state as a fact who the members of the band are, or how many records they sold, but even this is tricky. Who were the members of the Beatles? Is Pete Best in there, or not? I'm sure you could get "opinions" going both ways, so should the entry on the Beatles say that "some people believe the members of the band were X" and "some people believe the members of the band were Y"? Just thoughts. Ignore me if i'm wrong. Or even better, demonstrate my wrongness and expose me to ridicule. Don't worry, i'm used to it. =) --AW

BTW, I say mysterious simply because you're not attributing your stuff, either through a tag or through a Wikipedia username... --AW

Heh, I ought to get a login name.

Perhaps my problem is more with "articulate" that with "outspoken". "Articulate" means something like "well-expressed", which is a value judgement. Especially when you're dealing with lyrics, which are a form of poetry.

Anyway, I've made my objection clear and I think we can leave it at that.

As it happens I wasn't referring to lyrics in particular, more the totality of RAtM's approach - they did lots of stuff outside of music directly, participating in protests, making statements, all the stuff on album sleeves, etc. I suppose articulate *is* a value judgment, but it's one I was intending simply to deal with, I suppose, sophistication of language. I see your objection now, i'll see if I can think of a better word to replace articulate. Hmm, OK, i'm gonna rewrite that section a little now. Thanks. --AW

How about "clear"? RAtM's political views are definately clear: all their songs deal with them directly and the members can be said to be politically active. -- Sam

"as well as their vocally ignorant leftist beliefs." What is that supposed to be unbiased language?

cop killer

Is "cop-killer" a neutral and encyclopedic term? I'd argue it isn't neutral because it implies that murdering "cops" is a more significant crime than murdering other, lesser, beings. And if anyone wants to argue it's encyclopedic, let's hear it. --Sam Francis

Right on!

The - the

Is it Rage Against the Machine, or Rage Against The Machine?

I know Artist Direct] has it lower case. —BenFrantzDale 15:12, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

Words like 'the' and 'an' etc etc in titles/names/blah are never capitalized.

Well that's an interesting question. Rage Against the Machine is often referred to as RATM, as oppopsed to RAM, which would be grammatically correct. If this is true, the T in "the" should be capitalized. -evrythingsgoingdown

Part of the reason it is reffered to as RATM is becuase RAM is already taken by Random Access Memory, and RAM is itself a word. I personally use RAtM, even though it looks it kind of funny. Chris3145 05:33, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Rage Against the Machine is RATM, end of story.(?)

No, Rage Against the Machine is RAtM because "Words like 'the' and 'an' etc etc in titles/names/blah are never capitalized" ~Christophe —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.85.219.15 (talk) 18:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

T is capitalised. I've just looked on the back on the Battle of Mexico City, and it's Rage Against The Machine. havnt checked the other albums but im sure itll be just the same.

breakup date

Didn't RATM break up earlier than 2003? I could've sworn it was more like 2000 or 2001. - —Preceding unsigned comment added by dankru (talk • contribs) Rage broke up in 2000. The live album "Live at the Grand Olympic Auditorium" reflects their last live performance, in 2000. The album was released in 2003.

NYSE

I've searched the NYSE site, and the rest of the web and the incident during the recording of the "Sleep Now in the Fire" is only covered on music/fan/promotional websites. There is no record of the stock exchange closing an hour early - except on Michael Moore's blog [1] - so I'm removing the comment about "dramatic financial consequences". Added attribution for the incident from MTV news - appears to have been the only news network to cover it. Shame because it's a great story :) --Dilaudid 02:00, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

According to the video "At 2:52pm, in the middle of the trading day, the Stock Exchange was forced to close it's doors. No money was harmed".--85.210.58.16 01:30, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I too am interested in the NYSE incident and also haven't found an official news source reporting on it. UK's The Guardian mentions it in an article about Michael Moore [2] and it was also mentioned in a CNN program (transcript [3]) by Michael Moore and Tom Morello. It's in some music news, but it seems unusual that it isn't elsewhere as well. --71.113.225.164 16:17, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

It did happen, the stock exchange did close early for the first and only time in its history, Rage made in close, Michael Moore got arrested (can't remember why) and when security saw Rage coming, someone hit the alarm for some reason causing iron gates to drop on the entrances. There is probably no record because they were too embarassed and don't want people to know. -- SOADJPenator

This is the largest stock exchange in the world. A million people watch the prices that tick through it, all news networks cover it in every western country. 23 trillion dollars are invested in it. It's reputation rests upon it being relied on not to lie. If the 4 members of RATM plus Michael Moore had been able to overpower the thousands of traders that work on the floor and stop trading it would have been a major news event across the world. As it stands, it's an excellent video. --Dilaudid 11:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

If you're really keen to get this information further verified - why not add it to the main NYSE article, or ask on the talk page there? That's where I got most of my stats too by the way --Dilaudid 11:58, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

It probably wasn't reported as an attempt to hide that it even happened and to keep other bands from trying to copy them. ~ Black Man #17

Footnote 61 ("New York Stock Exchange Special Closings, 1885-date. NYSE Group. Retrieved on 2007-04-07.") bears no mention of this incident or, in fact, the day on which it supposedly occurred. I think this footnote and its associated article text should be removed. Cww 01:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The reference, if it is true, shows by omitting any mention of RATM-associated closure, that no such event occurred, supporting the claim. You may argue that the source is unreliable, or that it is not comprehensive, but not that it does not support the claim cited. Skomorokh ^incite 01:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that, by omitting any mention of this incident, the document supports the claim that trading continued uninterrupted. However, the rest of the sentence that bears the reference has to do with the doors closing and the band being escorted away from the Exchange by security. Perhaps the paragraph should simply be reworded in such a way that the reference and its referent are unambiguously related? Cww 01:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely, you could split the referenced and unreferenced claims into separate sentences, or simply add {{Fact}} tags to the punctuation marks after the unreferenced claims within the sentence. Be bold! Skomorokh ^incite 09:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Done and done. Hopefully. :) Cww 01:59, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Zack's solo cd

Does anyone know where the info for Zack's solo CD release date came from? I've googled it and gotten nothing. If it's legit then awesome... but I don't want to get my hopes up.

rap metal or nu metal

Describing rage as rap metal or nu metal isn't informative unless either the term is defined, or the reader clicks the link and reads about the genre. I think Rage fits into both genres just fine, and the nu metal article is much more informative, so I think that in the intro paragraph, the link should be nu metal. Smmurphy 19:16, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Theres no waythey are nu metal, as they came on to the scene way before that term was used. They Funk MEtal at best but they really dont have a style as theres is not one other band who sounds remotley like them (correct me if I'm wrong as there may be some obscure group ive never hear, in which case im sorry).

I personallly think that Rage Against The Machine is rap metal at 75% (vocals) and funk metal at 25% (rhythms). They cannot be classified as nu metal for two main reasons: their career has begun prior to the nu metal breakthrough, and this genre doesn't have only hip hop influences. Egr, 15/5/2006

RATM were by no doubt a massive influence on Nu Metal, but they're not part of the genre. Because its hard to put in them in a specific genre, i think Alt. Metal is the best to describe them, as well as Rap metal. They are metal, its clear from listening to their earlier material.

Too funky for metal, too metal for funk. Hard to say which they are. Anyhow, they're not Nu-Metal as they're missing a number of hallmarks of the Nu-Metal genre; RAtM have guitar solos, however unconventional; they don't down tune (they drop-tune - and even then not on all songs - which is slightly different from downtuning); while they're lyrics could certainly be described as angtsy they're not 'Nu-Metal' angtsy. I would personally describe them as a Hip-Hop/Alt. Rock amalgam.

Alt. Metal

They play in the punk-derived alternative music tradition, so they're alternative rock. They combine alternative rock songwriting with metal's "heavy"/"hard" aggression, so they're alternative metal. They fuse funk into their style of alternative metal, so they're funk metal. They combine rock and rap, so they're rapcore. ~Switch ^{t c g} 06:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I vote to just call them Rage Against The Machine and/or "music". Remember music? --Sean.ridgeley 17:33, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Photos?

Anyone have photos of rage in public domain or GNUFD from all the Wiki's?. --Oscar 23:44, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

To the person asking for Zacks solo album

I've heard that hes gonna release it Dec 31, 2005, or sometime around that. I heard it from second-hand sources as well. Is that the same date that you've heard as well?

Restore older version of page

The version of the page I corrected was horribly POV and grossly unencyclopedic. Versions prior to mid-November are more neutral, and I would suggest that a version of the page from that time be restored. WesleyDodds 04:23, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Music videos?

can someone cite their sources for the music videos, because i could not find them after searching the web. by music video, do you mean tape performance on dvd, or actual music video like they would show on MTV or something else?

try yahoo music

Or YouTube, they have pretty much every music video by almost every artist. (Blastdude 20:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC))

YouTube periodically removes most RATM videos, but they get put back up TheTrojanHought 21:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Raging Within the Machine

I am all about Rage's music, but when someone (Zach) is so outspoken about his views, yet "owns" the name "Rage Against the Machine", I find it...hmm. Weak. BTW, I could not find anything that definitively proved that, but I found several sites that said it without reference. I love the art that artists like Rage and Tool and many other bands give us, but we should not elevate these artists to superhuman status like the drooling masses do with the Hollywood douche bags. Enjoy the art, but don't lose your ideas to someone else's. IMO.

Actually, Zack left the band prior to their breakup, so he's the only member not to own part of the name and merch - Morello is just as vocal as Zack, and he does own part of the band. And the phrase isn't copyrighted, if that's your implication - just its use in reference to the band.

"Actually, Zack left the band prior to their breakup" isn't this kind of a paradox, since the rest of the band are together, and the "breakup" of the band was Zack leaving?Jackpot Den 19:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

no seeing as they stayed together a played with other peple for a while before compeletley qutting

ummm, they didn't quit, they simply got Chris Cornell from Soundgarden and made Audioslave. they didn't break up technically, just switched singers and changed the name. -- SOADJPenator

^^Which qualifies as a break-up. Audioslave are emphatically NOT RAtM, hence the description of the recent reunion as a 'reunion', rather than a 'restoration of the old line-up' or some such phrase.

This is the full part of the interview you're referring to:

Spin: How do you feel about the three of them staying together and possibly going forward as a version of Rage?

Zack: Its, um, a little disheartening, to be honest. When I came up with the name in, like, 1989-it was actually supposed to be the title of an Inside Out record [de la Rocha's pre-Rage hardcore punk group]-I never thought it would have this much weight associated with to it. And I never thought that if Rage continued on without me, I would be upset. But I found myself feeling, like "Yo, I thought of that shit, you know!" [Laughs] That name was part of my history before Rage and I feel like it would detract from what we accomplished and the importance of the records that we did together. But you know, Rage is those guys' musical identity too, and if thats what they want to do,well, I suppose thats okay by me. I'm not going to tell them how to run their lives.

burn yourself alive

i have a RATM album called burn yourself alive, which i wasn't sure if it was even for real, but found out it appears in both CDDB and freedb and on the net. i think it sould be added. any comments in the subject? --UVnet 03:23, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

seems to be an inofficial concert bootleg. it can be downloaded at ratm.de like several others (legally?). they list the album as "BURNING YOURSELF ALIVE 1-13 various dates in europe, 14 Mark Goodier sessions around 1993". i don't think the album deservses special mentioning, or do i miss s.th.?--Johnnyw 03:56, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

What about the contribution to the Crow soundtrack?

Where should "Darkness" fit in to the discography? Not a RATM album obviously, not a single (that I know of). Always seems like this is a forgotten song of sorts..."Killing in the Name"'s page lists its inclusion as an "unreleased track" in 1999, for example. Tarc 04:08, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

It appears on Live & Rare, so there's not really a problem. It's listed. Their other unreleased tracks, like the untitled Tool collaboration colloquially known as "(You Can't Kill the) Revolution", which was never heard except as an unfinished leaked track, and their unrecorded covers (eg. "Clampdown", The Clash), are more problematic, but as they never saw the light of day

I guess they're not noteworthy. --Switch 12:29, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Having read a bit about it somewhere, the Tool collaboration was actually supposed to be part of the soundtrack for Judgment Night (film). Oh, it's actually mentioned in the WP article! Johnnyw talk 12:25, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

There's an interview with Morello online somewhere where he talks about it - that could be used as a cite. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 05:27, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

If you come across a song contributions that are not on a RATM album, like on a soundtrack, compilation or another artist's album, or even not on an album at all, you can make a separate section in the discography called "Other contributions", and list them there. See Nirvana discography#Other contributions for an example. -- Reaper X 06:02, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

There are indeed quite a few songs little known even to the biggest fans (Autologic for one example), a section about this should definetely be made. I'm far too busy right now to do it myself..someone should find out some info on the song "Producer", which as far as I know is live only, but is an excellent track.--Sean.ridgeley 00:12, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Clear channel ban?

Hey, was wondering what the source was for Clear Channel banning Rage? I'm not surprised, and don't doubt it in the least, but I would a source so I can add some ammunition to some of my arguments in other fields, :). Ecopirate 22:31, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I googled for '"rage against the machine" "clear channel" -wikipedia' and got

"After Sept. 11, to the amusement/horror of music critics and radio industry professionals, Clear Channel issued a list of 150 songs to its member stations that it deemed too sensitive to play in the wake of the terrorist attacks. The list included an odd mix of songs: the more understandable choices featured flight references ("Bennie and the Jets," "Ticket to Ride"); others were associated with New York ("On Broadway"); and, most surprisingly, many were related to peace ("Bridge Over Troubled Water," "Imagine"). The list also included all songs by the political rock group Rage Against the Machine. Clear Channel had, overnight, become the new arbiter on music-to-grieve-by." right here --Johnnyw 04:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

My gratitude, good sir. Ecopirate 06:56, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Flem

Someone who reads flem regularly should post a point where the "testify" event happens Jackpot Den 19:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

http://www.flemcomics.com/d/20020916.html does this count as one, and how can i put it on? Jackpot Den 23:59, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Imperial March

Imperial March (Rage) is not by RATM, is by Dave Levison. Read http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Imperial_March

merge vietnow

Propose: Merge Vietnow with Rage against the machine. it doesn't deserve its own page. Slasher600 03:13, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

If thats the case, why not merge all albums or singles released to the pages of the artists

No, it's a single by the band, it should have it's own page. There is no need in merging it.

==

"Australian Comedian John Safran has a refrence to RATM at the begining of his program Music Jamboree joking about how they took the lyrics "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me." out of their song "Killing In The Name" because the record company told them to."

WAA!? The lyrics "Fuck you i won't do what you tell me" are in the album version, only the radio edit skips out that bit (for obvious reasons). I'll add a note as this John Safran guy annoys me and i've never heard of him.

Yeah, he was talking about the radio edit. It's funny dude. He is annoying, but thats his schtick

==

Small note for the references section...it's small, but in the TV show Danny Phantom, Danny refers to a local arcade in the series as "Raging Against a Machine". Should that be added???? p.s. i stink at editing actual articles so would anyone be willing to do it???? thanks... Aelita the Angel 3:51 pm May 13, 2006

politics

Did RATM ever formally articulate their political beliefs (like in liner notes, or on their website)? did they name a specific ideology e.g. anarcho-syndicalism? heqs 06:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

No, but the reading list they distributed (still available on the Rage Against the Machine DVD) included What is Communist Anarchism?, so it's fairly certain that as a group they were some form of libertarian socialists. Morello described himself as "a socialist". Zack's history with punk rock suggest he might be an anarchist, but that's largely going on stereotypes. --Switch 15:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Call me crazy, but the title of the book strikes me as espousing communist anarchism moreso than libertarian socialism. heqs 06:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I dare say it is. As communist anarchism is a form of libertarian socialism, I think my statement is still a safe bet. --Switch 04:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Someone just changed the reference to revolutionary socialism to "revolutionary political philosophy" which I feel is a more NPOV characterization. The members of RATM are pretty independent thinking dudes, it's unlikely they subscribe en masse to one ideology. I say leave the description vague in the lead and add verified detailed descriptions, if such things exist, in the politics section. Skomorokh ^incite 17:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Morello has said himself he is a nonsectarian socialist (though he's also identified as Marxist and anarchist at other times I believe), so "their ideology" is pretty sketchy. As an aside, I can't find Morello ever saying "I am an anarchist/Marxist", but I can find him talking about having said those things. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 02:59, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

origin of the name

I looked for a citation for the reference to a speech by Karl Marx, but I couldn't find a speech in which he told workers to "rage against the machine", though there's a a chapter in "Das Kapital" that sounds like he might have said something like that. The edit that added the reference to Marx is the only edit by an anonymous user.

I'm also wondering whether, even if the Marx reference is correct, the name might also be a reference to Mario Savio's seminal "machine" speech in Sproul Plaza, the video of which certainly brings to mind "rage against the machine".

Does anyone have reliable information on the origin of the name? If not, perhaps there should just be a list of things that the name *might* refer to. Joriki 14:47, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I guess some translations of Marx's work might include that phrase, but obviously not all. Someone ought to find a translation which does use that phrase, and reference it accordingly. Until then it should probably be removed, unless a suitable statement by a band member can be found. 86.1.99.205 22:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

anybody who would care to research the subject would find out that "Rage Against the Machine" was going to be the name of Inside Out's second album (Inside Out was the Hardcore band that Zack was in before rage).69.218.199.100 09:15, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I was just reading this article and hate that people use the "In Popular Culture" section to say that RATM (the band) was the origin of the saying. I vote that this section be removed entirely 210.87.40.67 06:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The phrase comes from a different translation of Engels' "Synopsis of Capital", in which he describes the capitalist class struggle "as a revolt against the machine." I added this information onto the main page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.157.60.208 (talk) 02:08, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

I removed the claim

that "Rage Against the Machine" is a phrase that Marx used in a speech. Couldn't find it at marxists.org or the MarX-Files; I guess it depends on translation, but it sounds a little fanciful to me, and it doesn't appear in these searches through all his writings and speeches. 151.204.61.230 14:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC) (unsigned in User:Kane5187)

Note: rage against the machine was a term originally coined by the British rebelious fractions called the ludites who destroyed factory machines during the industrial revolution in an attempt to get their jobs back. (before Marx did)

Bill Hicks

can someone backup the thing about bill hicks at his last performance shouting "fuck you i wont do what you tell me"?

66.41.59.162 22:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know that he shouted it at his final performance, but I do know that one of his CDs ends with Killing In The Name playing over the PA (he frequently ended performances by having a song played over the PA, usually something by Jimi Hendrix). - Ecksem Diem 17:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm near positive it wasn't at his final performance (there are a ton of Bill Hicks bootlegs mislabeled as being his last performance, I think partly due to the fact that around that period he was often telling his audience that the given show was his last show..I think this was some kind of joke, or perhaps he meant it to say that it was his last show for that particular audience, before his death), but I can verify that he did utilize the song in at least one performance. You can see it here. The part where he pretends to smash the fruit is a reference to an earlier part of the show where he's making fun of another comedian who did the same thing. Bill was definetely a Rage fan, there's a humorous interview with his friend/producer Kevin Booth who talks about Bill being a fan.--Sean.ridgeley 23:56, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Yo. ~ Switch (✉✍☺☒) 06:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

That's the one.--Sean.ridgeley 01:41, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Zapata's Blood

In the DVD's section, under The Battle of Mexico City, it claims that Zapata's Blood is a cover. This doesn't seem very likely, since Rage was extremely supportive of the Zapatista movement, which the song is about, and I have yet to see another band who openly supports them. If it is a cover, could somebody please tell me who wrote it? (and if it isn't, somebody please change it and say it isn't a cover) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 156.34.220.69 (talk • contribs) .

Dont believe its a cover, though there is a line in the live CD version that Zack says is a Zapatista saying..perhaps that is the source of the confusion. --Sean.ridgeley 23:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Acutally, allmusic.com credits the song to De la Rocha and RATM, so I changed it.. --Johnnyw talk 19:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

References in popular culture

Half of the references that are supposedly a nod to the band don't give off any notification as to why they are a reference to the band or just a reference to the phrase. The list needs to be revised. --- Xephyrwing 17:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Unreleased and Remixed

Does anybody know anything about the Rage album "Unreleased and Remixed"? I have the album and I would like to know more about it.

It's not an actual album released by rage. It's basically a fan's collection of stuff he/she found etc. --adam

Possible reunion

anyone seen this? http://www.cosmicdynamo.com/zdlrnet/ It mentions a RATM reunion but the link doesn't work... Interesting..

The link just showed Tom and Zach posing with some fan, and both of them were smiling. That's all.

Looks like an empty or outdated fansite looking for some fake attention. Not one of the links on the site works. The Car 08:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi, my english is to poor to edit the article but there will be a reunion

http://metromix.chicagotribune.com/news/celebrity/la-et-coachella22jan22,0,6222675.story?coll=mmx-home_bottom_hedsh2o

yeah its ont here offical site, there going to headline at Coachella - Jestabobo

Not Broke Up

Ok, that one colum "Zack de la Rocha's Departure", someone keeps changing it to "break up". it can only be considered as a breakup if all the members part ways. zack was the only one who left. tom tim and brad are still together. stop changing it to a break up. they didnt break up. zack was the only one who left.

The band "Rage Against the Machine" doesn't exist any more. That's why this article is separate from the Audioslave article. --Switch 11:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

They broke up. The band was no longer in one piece and it no longer exists.

Loss Of Info?

Um, why is it that nearly half the article is completely gone? I visited this article a few days ago, and everything was there. Now someone removed half of it. I can't retrieve the info, so could someone else put it back up?

Guitar Hero II

I have changed the statement that says that Killing in the Name is rumoured to be in Guitar Hero II.
It has now been confirmed to be in the game.
74.234.10.23 23:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Edit war

Could we discuss what genres Rage should be put in--preferably with reference to some source outside our own instinctive knowledge of musical genres--rather than edit warring? Nareek 12:46, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Political Beliefs

Everything under "political beliefs" is chronologically completely mixed up. Is there a particular reason why it is so? TommyStardust 18:16, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know. Some of it seems to be detailing their beliefs with evidence from things they said at different times, but after that it also lists some different examples of their political activity with no particular order. Anyone is welcome to rewrite the section to put it in a better chronological order, but please try not to confuse the parts not relating to a specific event.

In any case, I've moved the "political beliefs" subsection out of the "early years" section, renamed "early years" to "history" as it contains their entire history as RATM, and moved "political beliefs" to the top of the article as it's more important to their identity. --Switch 10:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Two reference sections?

I am not sure why there were two reference sections. One was in the middle of the article. I combined the two at the bottom. – Heaven's Wrath   ^Talk  02:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Funk

If you google "Rage Against the Machine" and "funk", you don't find many references to funk as an influence or a genre that the band was part of. Mostly you get hits relating to "Renegades of Funk", which was not a song that they wrote. Without some supporting evidence in terms of sources, I would get the funk out of there. Nareek 15:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

There are 670,000 results for "rage against the machine" "funk" -"renegades of funk", which I would say is many. There are a few lyrics pages and two misspells of "Renegades", but most results on the first four pages are genre descriptions, and it probably goes further. As for proper publications, Melody Maker described them as "screaming funk-bone hardcore and agit-rock" - 1st January, 1994, pg77.

There's also their respects to Parliament-Funkadelic and Sly & the Family Stone (including their images being shown in the video for "Renegades of Funk"), and, well, their allover sound. They definitely adopted "syncopated rhythms, thick bass line, ... prominent percussion, ... danceability, ... strong jazz influences". --Switch 09:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

And in Audioslave they cover Funkadelic's 'Super Stupid' live, showing a continuing respect to Funk.

This issue is completely settled now... Brad Wilk told Modern Drummer in 2002 that Rage were influenced by funk in this interview. ~Switch ^{t c g} 04:07, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Single information

Before it was converted into a table, the singles had additional information in the "Singles" section, about soundtrack appearances and the like. Is it possible for someone who knows more about the code to add another column for that kind of information to the table? -Switch 03:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Done. -Switch 05:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

"Revolutionary socialist"

I was bold and changed the intro from "leftist beliefs" to "revolutionary socialist beliefs". I think it's pretty hard to contend that they were not revolutionary socialists in some sense of the word, whether it's left communism or anarchism or anything else. Feel free to revert and start up a debate though, if you disagree or think the less specific term is better. -Switch ^t 11:27, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Reunion Confirmation

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003535501 Doc Strange 13:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• yes they're getting back together

Is this just a one time gig? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.180.21.112 (talk) 11:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

Depends on who you listen to. Billboard says no, but Kerrang! supposedly disagree.

its awesome news. i only found out today. duno where ive been for the past month, but i havnt heard of the festival they're playing at cos im from the UK. It would be awesome if RATM could exist alongside Audioslave, although I do prefer RATM more. 88.110.66.175 15:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, Audioslave broke up, so it might be Rage all the way now. Or maybe not... only time will tell.

But has anyone else noticed that the likelihood of a permanent reunion has been increasing in recent weeks? There were rumours Cornell was not doing well in Audioslave. Then there was a rumour of a one-off Rage reunion. Then, a confirmation. Then Morello said he's open to more shows. Then Kerrang! reported more shows had been planned. Then Audioslave break up... ~Switch ^{t c g} 06:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Kerrang!

Anyone here read Kerrang!? RATM's reunion is the cover story for this month, and if anyone could cite the claims currently in the article, that would be good. ~Switch ^t 03:46, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Citing Sources

I know it's vague and arbitrary, but I'm hoping for this article to be good enough for a GA nom by the time of the reunion concert. To that effect, I've just cited a whole lot of stuff, and removed some uncited stuff. There's still some stuff in there - like a quote or two from Tom Morello, and Brad Wilk's Modern Drummer interview - that still needs citing though. The major change was an overhaul of the section on Zack's solo career. Anyway, lend a hand if you get the time. Once it's well cited, we can rebuild it into a better layout and go about that GA nom. ~Switch ^{t c g} 04:13, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism and protection

In light of recent vandalism, I have requested this page be semi-protected.Skomorokh 20:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Album release gaps

Does anybody know why it there was a 4 year gap in between Rage Against the Machine and Evil Empire? It seems like it should be mentioned. 75pickup (talk · contribs) 03:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I read in an interview with Tom that Zack used to get writer's block.

Great, now can you find out where the interview was conducted so we can put it in the article? 75pickup (talk · contribs) 75pickup 22:52, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Tire Me

does anyone else think there should be a page for tire me? i mean they won a grammy for it....

It has an article, and it's linked now. It wasn't before because it was in the Discography section before that was spun off. When that section was spun off, the sings below weren't linked. They have been now. ~Switch ^{t c g} 07:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Live at the Grand Olympic Auditorium

Can the information for the album, "Live at the Grand Olympic Auditorium" be put on here? Seeing as it was published by Sony back in 2003. (November 21, to be exact). Jeddeh 19:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)Jeddeh

A live album titled Live at the Grand Olympic Auditorium, an edited recording of their last concerts on September 12 and 13, 2000 at the Grand Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles, was released in 2003. It was accompanied by an expanded DVD release of the September 13 show, and also included the previously unreleased music video for "Bombtrack".

~Switch ^{t c g} 05:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

RATM Ozzfest

Is Rage Against the Machine playing at Ozzfest this year? The System 3000 03:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

A friend of mine works at Alpine Valley in Wisconsin (outdoor concert hall) and he received his work schedule for this summer. RATM with Wu Tang is scheduled for August 24th if anyone is interested.

Morello says only the Coachella and Rock The Bells concerts are planned - there are no others yet, and may never be. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 01:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

@ switch according to their website there will be 15 concert but they haven't been announced yet, my reference to the Wisconsin concert was concerning that.

Oh, okay. That's cool. I was addressing The System. It's a pity that (according to what their site says) "Rage Against The Machine will appear at the three aforementioned dates only." :( Still, that makes at least 5 shows including Coachella and the acoustic set with only Tom and Zack. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 07:39, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

So, are they? The System 3000 15:45, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Post-Rage work

I added a 'Wilk and Commerford' subsection to this section which was subsequently integrated by User:SwitChar into the Audioslave section for being a once-off. If, as the article currently suggests, the Puscifer work was their only non-Audioslave post-Rage work, this would seem reasonable, but I seem to recall reading about other Maynard James Keenan related performances, work on the The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys soundtrack, as well as the pair recently laying down drum'n'bass of their own with no intention of adding guitar/vox. Am I imagining this? Does anyone have sources that confirm or refute these supposed projects?–Skomorokh 09:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not finding anything on it on the 'net. But I'm certainly not finding any evidence that it didn't happen. If any sources confirming it can be found a new section can be written up for them. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 11:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Coachella Quote

What he actually said was "...they should be hung and tried and shot" (notice order of actions). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rzudm0t1DY (at about 5:29) Wikivarun 20:29, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

- I don't think he ment it in that particular order just in general those are the punishments that fit the crimes of various member of the Bush Admin.

See Are IRC, MySpace, and YouTube reliable sources? for the rationale behind YouTube not being used as a reliable source. Published news articles on the other hand are reliable sources. We should go with what MTV's article says. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 08:25, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

How is the quote about President Bush not relevant enough to be on their wiki page? It was removed not once but twice. Again, it happened--it was stated in a public forum and it was political. I think the quote should be returned and quoted regardless. TucsonUte 05:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I clearly stated to you when I reverted it that it was already mentioned on the page. If you read the article you will clearly find this out. Most of your section is not irrelevant, but redundant. It's all already there, why add the same thing twice? Wikidan829 05:23, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

See the last sentence of the third paragraph here to see that someone beat you to the punch. Wikidan829 05:30, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Post Coachella

Is there any news on RATM reforming since Coachella finshed? Now that Chris Cornell has left Audioslave, surely they will be considering it? Gus 80.193.211.68 14:59, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:RAtM-BattleofLosAngeles.jpeg

Image:RAtM-BattleofLosAngeles.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:RATM Logo.png

Image:RATM Logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Turning PC Clock forward does not alter RATM countdown site

Can anyone else verify this as well?

no i did this and cleared my cookies and cache and restarted the browser and it still counts down the same way (i.e. still says that theres XX days/hours/mins left). i'm removing the info from the article until someone can back up the claim (and even then it would be considered "Original Research" so... yeah).68.255.229.29 16:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Just tried to remove this and it told me that the database is currently locked from editing for maintenance... or something like that.68.255.229.29 16:59, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I can verify that it does indeed change the site. It says "August 24th, Alpine Valley" and that tickets will be on sale at 10am 6/16. I'd be happy to take a screenshot of it and upload it if you'd like. FireC 07:30, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

New Album???

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RMIXXC/002-1595201-2567220 That link suggests a new album, to be released at the end of August, titled "Lowdown". Has this been confirmed anywhere else? 213.218.244.201 12:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

AllMusicGuide, VH1 and others list it as a video/compilation. I wouldn't expect to see a new album release that soon anyways, so keep your cool ;) I adapted the article accordingly.. --Johnnyw talk 13:15, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

This is just a "biography and interview" disc. Similar ones are coming out for Tool (http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B000R348M6) and NIN (http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B000R4S6K0). --Blukens 13:52, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

more preformances?

ticket master lists two more performances on their site, one of which is part of rock the bells (i believe it says they only preform 3 times with rock the bells) and one in East troy, Wisconsin http://www.ticketmaster.com/artist/750164

Singles timeline

I've just imported a singles box from the Spanish featured article into the Discography section that flagrantly contradicts the navigational template at the bottom. Does anyone know an authoritative source for which singles were released when? Skomorokh ^incite 19:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Any Spanish speakers here?

Is anyone able to translate the following paragraphs? Even a sentence each would be very helpful.

Incidente durante los MTV Video Music Awards del 2000

Durante la entrega de los premios de los MTV Video Music Awards del 2000, el premio por Mejor Video de Rock ("Best Rock Video"), fue presentado y entre los nominados se encontraba Rage Against the Machine. Al final, el premio terminó en las manos de Limp Bizkit; cuando Fred Durst estaba dando sus agradecimientos al público, Tim Commerford se subió sobre el andamio del escenario y amenazó con lanzarse. Fred Durst respondió sarcásticamente que Limp Bizkit era "la banda más odiada en el mundo", y la retransmisión televisiva fue a cortes comerciales. Luego Tim aclaró que todo era una broma. Gracias a esto, quedó opacada la presentación en vivo de la banda durante la entrega de premios, y él y su guardaespaldas pasaron una noche en la cárcel.

Incidente en Saturday Night Live

El 10 de abril de 1996, Rage iba a tocar dos canciones en el programa de comedia de la NBC Saturday Night Live. El invitado del programa esa noche era el ex candidato presidencial del partido republicano y millonario Steve Forbes. Según el guitarrista de RATM Tom Morello, Rage buscaba el contraste con el multimillonario, que se dedicaría a contar chistes y a defender el impuesto de tasa única, realizando su propia declaración de principios, en la cual expresarían las profundas disparidades sociales y étnicas existentes en el país. Para representar esa declaración, la banda intentó primero colgar dos banderas de los Estados Unidos, al revés, en sus amplificadores (como solían hacer en cada uno de sus conciertos), durante un ensayo antes de la transmisión del jueves. Pero los productores de SNL y otros directivos de la cadena NBC ordenaron que las quitaran, alegando que los patrocinadores se molestarían, además del hecho de que querían realizar un show sin muchos altercados por la presencia de Forbes. SNL también informó al grupo que iba a silenciar algunas partes de la letra de "Bullet in The Head" (que era la supuesta segunda canción de la banda). SNL insistió incluso en que la canción también sería silenciada en el estudio, porque Steve Forbes tenía amigos y familia presente ahí.

En la noche del show, después de la primera canción y también después de que fueran retiradas las banderas (los integrantes del Grupo las colocaron a pesar de las advertencias), unos oficiales de SNL y NBC se acercaron entre bastidores al grupo y les ordenaron que abandonaran el edificio inmediatamente. Luego de oír eso, Tim (el bajista) irrumpió en el vestidor de Forbes y tiró unas lámparas al piso antes de ser sacado por la fuerza del lugar.

Skomorokh ^incite 20:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I don't have any spanish background, but I usually use the WorldLingo free translator. So heres what it spit out for me. It's not the best obviously, but you get the idea of what it means.

Incident during MTV Video Music Awards of the 2000

During the delivery of the prizes of MTV Video Music Awards of the 2000, the prize by Better Video of Rock (“Best Rock Video”), it was presented/displayed and between the name ones was Rage Against the Machine. In the end, the prize finished in the hands of Limp Bizkit; when Fred Durst was giving his gratefulness to the public, Tim Commerford rose on the scaffold of the scene and threatened sending itself. Fred Durst responded sarcastically that Limp Bizkit was “the hated band more in the world”, and the televising broadcasting went to commercial cuts. Soon Tim clarified that everything was a joke. Thanks to this, it was left the live presentation of the band opacada during the delivery of prizes, and he and their bodyguard spent one night in the jail.

Incident in Saturday Night Live

The 10 of April of 1996, Rage was going to touch two songs in the program of comedy of the NBC Saturday Night Live. The guest of the program that night was the ex- presidential candidate of the republican party and millionaire Steve Forbes. According to the RATM guitarist Tom Morello, Rage looked for the resistance with the multimillionaire, who would dedicate itself to count jokes and to defend the tax of unique rate, making its own declaration of principles, in which they would express the deep existing social and ethnic disparities in the country. In order to represent that declaration, the band tried first to hang two flags of the United States, the other way around, in its amplifiers (since they used to do in each one of his concerts), during a test before the transmission of Thursday. But the producers of SNL and other directors of chain NBC ordered that they cleared them, alleging that the patrocinadores would be bothered, in addition to the fact that they wanted to make a show without many argument by the presence of Forbes. SNL also informed to the group that was going to silence some parts of the letter of “Bullet in The Head” (that was supposed the second song of the band). SNL even insisted on which the song also would be silenced in the study, because Steve Forbes had friends and present family there.

At night of the show, after the first song and also after the colors were retired (the members of the Group placed them in spite of the warnings), officials of SNL and NBC approached between frames the group and they ordered to them that they left the building immediately. After hearing that, Tim (the bear) burst in into the vestidor of Forbes and threw lamps to the floor before being removed by the force of the place.

-- Reaper X 21:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Rock the Bells NYC performance

I added some info about their speech in NYC. If someone could touch up on it, that would be great, as I am not that good at editting wikipedia... -Bruno

Disturbed

am i the only person disturbed by the naked photo in the article. I mean its an article and not very appropriate for this site

Wikipedia is not censored. Read the content disclaimer. ~ Switch (✉✍☺☒) 07:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Quote: "Words and images that would be considered offensive, profane, or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if their omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternatives are available." - I think a typical Wikipedia would find the image reasonably offensive and unnecessary, and a suitable alternative would of course be a simply cencored version of the same image, and the omission of penises in this article would not cause it to be any less informative, unless of course you visited the article on Rage Against the Machine with the sole purpose of finding the size of said penises. --LeakeyJee 13:40, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

It's not as if the picure is showing a sexual act, all it is is four naked men on stage. Look about the site, and you'll find many other pictures. How people can be offended by the sight of the human body is beyond me. ≈ The Haunted Angel 14:27, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I can be offended with the human body. I wouldn't want to see my neighbors naked. That would offend anybody. Anyways, though I could care less if the image was on the article or not, it really doesn't inform us much. All I get out of it is "RATM stood naked somewhere," not, "Oh wow, look at these people and their political beliefs." There really is no point to it in the article. IronCrow 03:30, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

To cause offence is the whole point of the image and their act of protest. DevAnubis 07:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Nude art is fine, this is not. Wonder why......its bands like this that point out such hypocrisy in this crazy ass world we live in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roguestate (talk • contribs) 18:25, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

So your saying the image is in the article with the sole purpose of it being to "cause offence"? In that case it should certainly be removed - and I am going to do so. --LeakeyJee 04:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Allow me to make this very clear.

1. The image is of a notable incident in the history of the subject of this article.
2. No suitable alternative images to depicting this incident are available.
3. A censored version of the image would not be a suitable alternative because it would not depict the incident accurately.
4. As the incident was of an entirely visual nature, removing the image would cause the article to be less informative.

Ergo the image stays. Skomorokh ^incite 04:52, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with LeakyJee. I don't believe removal of the image would make the article less informative when a written description would explain the exact nature of the protest. Lb34 20:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I think it is very informative; it summarizes the section into one image. Not to mention it invokes interest. I know when I first saw it, I said "WTF?!" out loud, and immediately started reading the section to find out why they did it. -- Reaper X 19:14, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Reunion section

Okay, I think this is getting a little out of hand. I don't think we can add anymore quotes to the Reunion section. I reverted this last addition primarily because we already have a quote of de la Rocha slamming "those fascist motherfuckers at the Fox News Network". But I'm still concerned and I need to say this.
I think we need to start being selective of what's included, or this section may become a coatrack because it is nothing but a collection of de la Rocha's words in order to make a point that what the Bush Administration has done is wrong, which isn't very neutral, especially considering this is an article about a musical band. Even though this is what RATM is basically all about here in 2007, we have other stuff to cover.
To remind some and make notice to all:
if you came here to carry de la Rocha's words to the Wikimedia community, go to Wikiquote and have a field day. If you came here to help carry the band's message, you came to the wrong place to do it. Opinions or original thought don't mean jack squat on an encyclopedia built on facts, go use a blog.
Besides that, I think the section is okay for now. -- Reaper X 06:25, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I added in de la Rocha's latest speech from the Alpine Valley show. Though in the past speeches haven't been included in the article, I still feel the speeches (the latter two which I transcribed) are relevant to the topic of the Reunion tour, as they have been the primary outward focus of the shows. If the consensus is to delete them, will you make sure to move them to Wikiquote before deleting it completely? At some point they probably should come down and be replaced by a description blurb but seeing as this is a developing story (follow-up speeches with common subject matter), it may be prudent to leave them up until we get more information as to the possibility of a reunion tour. Then clearly they will need to be retired to Wikiquote because it's simply impractical to keep all of his speeches on the page. Still, I regularly check the page for developments and so I imagine many people are enjoying reading the latest word from the band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.157.60.208 (talk) 01:51, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

I still have an issue with this section. IMO, the last 2 speeches should be removed and summarized with "De la Rocha made subsequent speeches at two Rock the Bells shows critisizing the Iraq War." It makes the article too long. The speeches that caused a feud with the "fascist Fox network" are notable enough, but the band has made comments critisizing the U.S. throughout it's existence. In response to 68.157.60.208, relevance to the topic of the Reunion tour is illustrated well enough by the first speech. We don't need them all. Objections? -- Reaper X 18:04, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I propose this diff] to the reunion section. Any objections should be made with good reason, because I think this is quite resonable. It cuts the article down by 4.1kb, makes the section more focused, and a wikiquote link is there for those who are interested in anything else de la Rocha said. -- Reaper X 21:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm going ahead with it after no response. -- Reaper X 17:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

DO we need that naked picture?

Really, I mean, I was doing a school report on the band, and I went down and my teacher saw the pic of the band naked and told me I wasent aloud to do the report anymore, thats not really fair... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.119.35 (talk) 20:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

This has been dicussed over and over, yet it still remains. I believe it is an example of WP:SNOW, and therefore warrants no further discussion. -- Reaper X 18:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

If you ever have children you may change your mind, but as your profile says, you're just a teenager.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

-RATM fan and parent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.136.158.82 (talk) 00:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

It is fault of a negligent parent, and not Wikipedia, when a child stumbles upon adult content in a website which so clearly asserts that it is not censored, and absolutely includes content not appropriate for minors. Second, this was not stance devised by teens alone (or any at all, for that matter), so criticizing it based on the age of one helpful commentator is inappropriate to say the least. VanTucky ^Talk 01:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd hardly class ordinary nudity as adult content, however that's one for a broader discussion. xlynx 10:00, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Do you have any quotes or references from Aristotle or The New York Times regarding the difference between censorship and restraint?

I think most adults would rather not see four sets of male genitals if they weren't expecting it, if they just wanted to learn more about a band. A link would suffice.

You can site all the wikidocu-garbage you want, but it doesn't change the fact that ever since I've seen this photo up here there's been someone saying, "Is that really necessary?"

I agree you have every right in the world to have it up here, but should you? Would it really take any amount of information from the piece to simply have a link?

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

-RATM fan and parent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.136.158.82 (talk) 02:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not arguing that it's right, or wrong. I'm quite neutral on it, either having it or linking to it is fine with me. I'm just saying I don't think raising yet another stink about it is going to change it. All of archive 1 is filled with discussion about it, and it was discussed again above. Not to mention the image's history has had a bit of a war. Even through all this, it still remains. Just putting that out there. -- Reaper X 03:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

The image is a photo of a nude protest, censoring it would be a highly questionable practice. I am wondering why you would find it inappropriate for any child to see a picture of a nude protest? Finally a non-pornographic, meaningful nude picture on the internet. Johnnyw talk 11:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Eh sorry guys, didnt see the other one about the picture... And besides..All I was doing was making a bio on them and I wanted to learn more about what they protest against...and I scrolled to far down. Im going to remove the picture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.119.35 (talk) 19:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Then I will revert the edit. The picture stays - it has a purpose, and isn't there for the sake of it, it is demonstrating the protest they made, and it's not our problem that your teacher didn't like it. ≈ The Haunted Angel 19:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

People come to this site to learn about this band. They are not prepared to see a nude photo. If they were going to learn more about the female vulva, they would be prepared to see some nude pictures. Would putting a link take away from people learning and understanding the protest? I don't think so. Your not even censoring the photo. You're just saying: I understand people aren't coming here expecting to see a naked picture of four people protesting. If they want to learn more about it through this picture, here is the link. I fail to see how it takes away from the article or anyones ability to see the picture if they want. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.136.158.82 (talk) 21:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

You fail to understand the point of the "not censored" policy. It means that the taste of an image is not a suitable factor in choosing whether to use it, period. If a properly-licensed image illustrating a pivotal event (such as this one) exists, then it is our duty as an informational resource to illuminate the subject by using the image. In this case especially, an image is, as they say, worth a thousand words. VanTucky ^Talk 21:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Exactly what he said. Also, please see WP:SNOW... this has been discussed before, and has always stayed - we're not gonna' remove it because it might "offend" a few people. ≈ The Haunted Angel 23:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

You're failing to understand my point that by providing a link to the picture, you're not censoring it. From the policy "some articles may include objectionable text, images, or links if they are relevant to the content" Your band standing about wikipedia not being censored, but by providing an uncensored link you'd be following the same uncensored guidelines, AND still maintaining the access to the information "some people" may want regarding the protest. You wouldn't be removing it, you'd be placing it on a separate page.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.136.158.82 (talk) 03:06, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Break. Firstly, I'm going to ask everyone to sign their posts using four tidles (~~~~). Secondly, I want to put this to bed, and I am requesting this receives wider community attention. I'm expecting lots of feedback on this one, so let's try and sift through this one last time and have some solid consensus. -- Reaper X 04:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

{{hidden|ta1=left|Click [show] to view an nude image of the band members protesting against the PMRC.|[[Image:Example.png|thumb|250px|right|RATM protesting against [[Parents Music Resource Center]] at [[Lollapalooza]] 1993.]]}}

This way, only those who want to see it can access it easily, and those who don't want to see it, well, won't. Seems like a solution to me, what do you think? şœśэїŝәқι^{ￆṱᾅἻқￂ} 04:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

That's exactly what I'm asking here. Either that or just leaving it. Thanks for the example. -- Reaper X 20:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely not. That implicitly says "this image is potentially offensive so we hide it behind a box", while the other images are instantly viewable. As an encyclopaedia, we don't decide what image is "offensive" and what image isn't. This is the exact same reason why {{linkimage}} was deleted. Melsaran (talk) 09:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

People, it's frankly absurd to take so much offense at genitalia. They're a part of the human anatomy, whether or not you've been shamed into being scared of them by your Puritan society. The picture demonstrates perfectly the band's controversially outspoken activist nature. And besides, Wikipedia isn't censored, mmmkay? -76.241.73.95 15:09, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[Responding to RFC] Guys the reality of this is that it is an image of a protest it is designed to shock and offend. As such it illustrates the article in a way which is beneficial to the article - a key requirement of any such image. As well, as has been repeatedly stated in the discussion Wikipedia is not (and in this authors opinion, should not be censored. A solution such as suggested by şœśэїŝәқι may be an appropriate work around? PhatePunk 03:09, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

This is pure nonsense. Wikipedia is not censored, and to suppress an image (making it hidden to satisfy prudes is suppression) directly and obviously violates this principle. Hiding an image as been suggested is not a solution, it's an attempt to censor something softly. This is a slippery slope, and if the images on articles such as Anal sex, Pearl necklace (sexuality), and Syphilis are protected by the WP:NOT#CENSORED policy, then obviously this is too. A simple image of four naked men is not some perverse sex act, and any proposal to remove this image from the page - completely or in part - is unacceptable. The simple fact is, Wikipedia includes images that some might find offensive. Period, end of story. There are plenty of disclaimers and ample explanation for it, so being surprised to find nude images is your ignorance, not our negligence. Consensus may change, but you're not going to overturn a hallowed policy of this encyclopedic in one fell swoop on a band article talk page. The bottom line is: firm policy supports keeping the image, and keeping it has been affirmed by an overwhelming majority of registered users. Grow up for pete's sake, it's just a damn penis. VanTucky ^Talk 04:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The fact that the protest is against exactly this sort of "think of the children" mentality suggests very strongly to me that the image should stay. It's a notable addition to the article, because this is an article about Rage Against The Machine - a band that virtually defines themselves by protest. If it was an article about Elton John I'd probably agree that it wasn't necessary, but this image shows one of the kinds of protests that the band hurls themselves headlong into. If anything, we need more images of them involved in protests. Orpheus 05:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The image is informative and illustrates the subject (apparently the nude protest was notable), so it stays. We're not going to censor it because you are offended by it, sorry. We're an encyclopaedia. Melsaran (talk) 09:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the image adds value to the article because it shows the extent of the protest. Just by reading the text I got the impression they were wearing guitars etc and did not take such bold steps. xlynx 10:00, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Listen, just break it down to the very basics. 1.) Rage Against the Machine (as the name more than tacitly implies) is a band very much in support of free expression in the form of opem protest, orthodox or otherwise. 2.) Wikipedia is a virtual encyclopedia and is not subject to censorship - WP:NOT#CENSORED, 3.)The picture is profoundly informative, illustrating (no pun intended) the very nature of the band's principles, and 4.)There is precedent for making such a photograph visible per the hundreds of articles detailing reproductive anatomy, and not just with cartoon schematics. Granted that is for "educational" purposes, but then again, information is education. This is obviously informative Wisdom89 08:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Uh....im not offended in anyway by this picture. Im offended that it pops out of nowhere like that. This is very simple, we create a page for the protest, you know a small page, and move the picture over there. Its not censoring now is it? Its still there, its just not there kay? And I wouldnt vist the page mkay? And hopefully neather does a eight year old kid who happens to like the band and stumple upon it, have a angry parent, who didnt read the non-censoring rule, and tries to sue wikipedia, not like she would win... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.119.35 (talk) 15:36, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Only comment I have is this - at the start of a lot of Wikipedia articles there are disclaimers about spoilers, current events, disputed information etc. Why not a disclaimer that the page contains an image which has nudity. I'm not commenting about the picture itself, just that I would like to see a warning (similar to the 'not safe for work' references you see on a lot of internet sites. Thanks. 203.31.52.131 03:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep the picture. I don't really see any arguments for why the picture isn't relevant for the article. If the picture is relevant to the article, it shouldn't be hidden behind a box, nor should it be tucked away in a new article. — Ksero 16:00, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. The picture is relevant to the article and there is no significant reason to remove it. This has already been hashed out before and the current use of this picture is in line with Wikipedia policies and conventions. Kaldari 16:42, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. The picture illustrates well the nature of the band and doesn't clash with any Wikipedia policies. It's not even that offensive to any but the most ridiculous prudes, IMHO. - 76.241.73.95 17:13, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
• First off, this vote is pointless, as Wikipedia is not a democracy. However, I will vote incase it must come to that, and so I vote to keep the picture. ≈ The Haunted Angel Review Me! 19:10, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Voting, however, can be used to establish if consensus has been reached. It's not necessarily keep vs delete per se. Wisdom89 01:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
• Obviously, per my above comments, I'm firm that the picture must be kept. VanTucky ^Talk 03:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. I can't rationalize deleting this image just because a few people are offended by it. I believe it shows that the band protested against a wide range of issues and what they did to do it. DTGardner 12:41, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
• I think the picture is relevent to the topic but when I wasn't expecting to see it. I think there should at least be something at the top of the article that states the picture is there, its not censoring just giving a warning but it should stay. Keep. JordanReddington 04:42, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Remove. Seriously, what is the point? We don't need a representation of what happened, or even just put it in a closed box. I'm a RATM fan and a teen, and to the person that took that photo, sick mind. andrewrox424 ^Bleep 09:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
• Weak Remove - I have to say, I've commented on this before, and I still don't have a dog in this race, but there's not much objective reason to have the picture around other than to make a point. In my evaluation, you don't lose much descriptive effect (indeed - without reading the corresponding section, you don't gain any in-depth understanding of the event, and out of context all it serves as is a commentary on the band members genitalia). I can understand some of the reasons I've seen for wanting to keep it, but with all, but with all respect, a lot of the (and I'm sure you guys know who you are) seem to be directed more toward with poking a finger in the eye of a social norm than in making the article better. One thing I will add, though - frequent recurrence of the debate is not indication of a WP:SNOW situation, but rather an indication of a smaller group of editors dedicated to the article staking out a consensus and that smaller consensus being consistently questioned by viewers and commentators just passing through. I'm not saying that either position is necessarily wrong, but in my estimation, weighing the potential difficulty the picture poses to the average user's use of the article in several environments, I'd be happy to see it go. This isn't an article like penis where you can expect to find nudity - it's an article about a rock band that released 4 records in the 90s.Cool moe dee 345 18:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - ...a rock band that put an image of a burning monk on their cover (which I personally find a lot more disturbing then seeing four naked men...) Protest is an important part of the band's biography. An image depicting one of the protests doesn't seem entirely out of place. As of yet, I haven't heard one reason to remove it that goes beyond "it is sick" or "it could be shocking" etc. which is why I would keep the image for the time being. Johnnyw talk 21:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I wanted to add some more junk here, first off i wonder who took that picture, and why they would,keep it in a photo album, enjoy themselves to it,who knows? 2nd, there is still no need for the picture, reading the text is a good enough idea of the event, we dont need to surpise someone with that picture, I found the event amuseing to read about, but to see it? No needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.119.35 (talk) 16:57, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I find that this discussion seems to be going in circles, and has been here for far too long after a clear majority consensus was reached. I don't see a single argument by recent commentators that contradicts WP:NOT#CENSORED. All seem to be forgetting the letter and spirit of that policy: taste is not an issue when choosing images, as Wikipedia inevitably includes content that may be offensive and inappropriate for minors. Practically a whole month of RFC is unusual for an incident, and the majority consensus of registered users here clearly sways in favor of keeping the image. VanTucky ^Talk 21:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Big Day Out

Promotional discussion removed, please stick to commenting on the article SGGH ^speak! 12:28, 5 October 2007 (UTC) Thats kinda off topic dude. But okay. And I vote for provideing a link. I mean come on, how many people do you think ive seen that picture and have been shocked? To me, the pic is a waste of space. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.119.35 (talk) 13:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Additional Australian Shows

There will be no additional Australian shows, stop stating that their will be, the addtional dates that were in the original press release were referring to the Big Day Out, and Brisbane was never mentioned, it was stated as "Queensland" which is the Gold Coast Big Day Out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.137.99.147 (talk) 09:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

New tour article?

Hmm? (The Elfoid (talk) 21:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC))

heroes of the year?

what is heoes of the year? when did they recieve this award? and y would they get it b4 2010 is ovr? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.151.146 (talk) 22:47, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Music Awards 2000

"Tim's actions are widely believed to be the impetus for singer Zach De La Rocha's exit and the end of Rage." - Can we have a better source for this rather pov statement? As far as I know Zach never stated this and the MTV website, covering their very own event, is rather biased. If there is no other source I would suggest to remove the line 77.11.173.53 (talk) 17:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

good?

how can this be a good article with so many unnecessary block quotes, some of which aren't even referenced? does anyone mind if I remove many of them and replace them with appropriate paraphrases? Kingturtle (talk) 02:16, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

i think that's a great idea.--Lykantrop (talk) 14:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

[sic] ?

If the quotation says "hung" instead of "hanged," perhaps "[sic]" should be included to confirm that it is indeed a verbatim quotation? 66.9.234.201 (talk) 17:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Split

The "Political views and activism" section is getting quite lengthy. Would anyone object to moving this information to a new article and leaving a brief summary and link in its place here? Fezmar9 (talk) 01:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea, as the section is growing rather large. 24.108.209.24 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC).

Zack confirms new album

In an interview with the chilean newspaper La Tercera, Zack de la Rocha confirmed to be preparing a new album with RATM to be published next summer in the United States ("... we are working on a new album due out next year, perhaps the northern hemisphere summer ...").[4] The interview took place in last October, before the concert in Chile in the Maquinaria Festival 2010. I could put the information but my english is not very good, so I ask a favor to a user to check the source and add it. Thanks. --Teby 95 (talk) 04:16, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

---

A bus boy who works at a restuarant in Santa Monica was told by Brad himself that RATM is definitely working on new material.

so.. why the hell does it say "possible" new album if it is confirmed that there IS a new album.. just put "new album" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.201.62 (talk) 04:23, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Do you have a source for your claim? Third hand accounts are not considered a reliable source by Wikipedia policy. --BBUCommander (talk) 17:46, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

continent?

In section 2009-2010: Killing in the Name campaign and subsequent European tour it says: "It was the first time the band played on that continent."

I might have to remind the one who wrote this, that the Americas is only one continent. North America and South America are not different continents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tincho8773 (talk • contribs) 03:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Interesting point. According to Continent, the 7 continent model lists South America as a continent, while the 4 continent model does not. What would you call South America if not a continent? --BBUCommander (talk) 17:40, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

A political boundary.174.91.92.138 (talk) 21:30, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Rage Against the Machine/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The article has a lot of good information, media, and some references. If a user with more familiarity of the group sees that the article is of good enough standards, they may want to nominate it as a Good Article candidate. - cgilbert(talk|contribs) 03:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 03:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 21:57, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

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Genre

Should we call this band, Nine Inch Nails, Fear Factory, 311, Faith No More and Tool 'Proto-Nu Metal'? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaggotSupremacy555 (talk • contribs) 15:03, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

What's your source for that? Binksternet (talk) 16:20, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

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Coloured wrist-band?

Welcome to you all. Sorry for bringing this here, but I suppose it is the best place for my question. On some pictures from some concerts, Zack de la Rocha is wearing a wrist-band of three colours: black, white and red. What is the meaning of these three colours combined? I believe there is some meaning, but I do not know it. Thank you for your help. Sleepy Prince 2020 (talk) 00:20, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Hip hop genre in infobox

I happen to be a rock music fan who doesn't like most hip hop, so it would be funny if this hard revert of sourced content [5] of my addition of hip hop to the infobox is a result of perceived rivalry between the two genres. The user's edit summary says "Hip hop is already mentioned in the musical style section and we have enough genres listed already." That it is mentioned in the article is a rationale to include it in the infobox, per WP:LEDE the intro summarizes the article. That "we have enough genres already" is an entirely personal opinion that sounds like WP:OWN; moreover there is empty space on the line for another term. Also, there is no rationale here why we should include say "alternative metal" at the expense of hip hop. Comments please. -Chumchum7 (talk) 08:37, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

@Chumchum7: We already have five genres in the infobox, we don't need any more. Rap rock and Rap metal already cover the fact that the band has hip hop elements in their music. We don't need to include hip hop. Bowling is life (talk) 12:49, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

You have already said we don't need to include hip hop in the edit summary of your revert. That's your opinion, which you are entitled to, and I happen to disagree. I would point to the notability of hip hop in describing this band's fusion of genres, demonstrated by the citation, which you removed. And there's plenty more sourced content where that came from [6] Per standard process, we need to open out our disagreement to other editors. -Chumchum7 (talk) 15:34, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Rage Against the Machine Nu Metal Label Controversy

I saw that all ties to Rage being a nu metal band were removed back in March. All I want to know is exactly why? Some I know will try to shoot down and deny this, but not only were there sources, they've also made plenty of material that fits the criteria. Some might say Korn started the genre, but I'd argue they only gave it the name. However, I just to know why because I've seen too much push back on this over the past year since the removal and it's a bit worrying in places SlytheWarrior (talk) 05:55, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

"All ties" weren't removed. Nu metal is still mentioned eight times on this page, and it's listed as one of their genres in the musical style section, it just isn't in the infobox. I believe the reasons for it being removed were that: 1. Template:Infobox musical artist says to "Aim for generality" in infobox genres, and alt metal is already listed (nu metal is a subgenre of alt metal). 2. In the musical style section, all the genres that made it into the infobox have five sources attached to them, nu metal only has four. Issan Sumisu (talk) 07:24, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Oh? I guess I did skim over the parts outside of them considered a predecessor instead. Fair enough. So I guess my question then is just how consistent is that need for a band to have sources to be considered to have the infobox mention? Because I've seen many articles have as little as two sources to have the genre added under a category. Unless there's different moderation under different pages, there should be some consistency on all pages. Also, it might just be me (and I'm not arguing the legitimacy of the concept because I know this is not popular), but Alternative generally seems too vague of a term for any band. That's just me though.

SlytheWarrior (talk) 13:48, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Question for native English speakers

Hi. I'd like to conduct a little survey in order to correctly translate the band's name for the Hebrew Wikipedia. How do you interpret the word 'rage' in the band's name, as a noun or as a verb? I have my own perception of course, but want to make sure since I think Hebrew speakers are getting it wrong. Thanks a bunch. כרסומת (talk) 22:03, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

@כרסומת: The name implies that they are raging against the machine (the system/government, etc). That's an action and verbs are actions. The definition of a verb is "a word used to describe an action, state, or occurrence, and forming the main part of the predicate of a sentence, such as hear, become, happen." In this context, I would say rage is being used as a verb in the band's name. Bowling is life (talk) 00:19, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

@Bowling is life: Thanks a lot. I agree. As far as translating it goes, that's the hard part... =) כרסומת (talk) 10:38, 5 November 2022 (UTC)