Talk:Quinzhee

Content

While the subject of this article is worthy of an encyclopedia, the content is nothing more than a how-to. I have created an module for Quinzhee in Wikibooks using this content. The article should now be amended to describe the nature, history, cultural significance, and modern examples of quinzhees. --Tysto 00:11, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rename and merge?

I think this article should be renamed to snow house since that is the more common name for it in English. Then we could also add content to it about things like the snow hotel in Sweden and the snow churches in Romania and so on.

I also think it might be nice to merge this article with "snow cave" since the two subjects are more or less the same. (Note, to me a "snow house" is built or dug out of a man made pile of snow, while a "snow cave" is dug into existing deep snow or into a snow covered slope.)

--David Göthberg 11:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have read descriptions of this structure in several U.S. books and it has always been referred to as a "quinzhee", except perhaps in some old "Fun for Boys"-type books. However the broader point is that a quinzhee is just one form of snow house, and that it may be worthwhile to make this current material a section of a larger topic. -Will Beback · † · 07:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this is not the US Wikipedia, this is the English language edition of Wikipedia, which includes among other things British English. But yeah, if this was a section in a broader article on all the other kinds of snow houses, snow caves and so on, then the naming would be less of a problem.

--David Göthberg (talk) 17:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

What language does the name quinzhee come from and what does it mean? 82.32.238.139 07:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"...is a shelter of Athapaskan origin" ed.mtu.edu/esmis/winter/quinzhee.html Other sources say it is an Innuit word. Unlike "snow house", it is not English and there is no one spelling that is agreed on. Onelook.com produces only one source for this word: This article.

It's Slavey: kǫ́ézhii - My source is the OED. There are a number of dialects in the Slavey dialect chain, and it's not clear which one it's from. I can tell you I don't know any similar word in Dene Suline, so I can believe a Slavey origin. I am much too lazy to write out a citation for the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.208.176 (talk) 13:37, 21 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pouring water on a Quinzhee

"To make the snowhouse more robust, one should pour water over it after cutting the door." I'm curious - why after? HLHJ 23:38, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I presume that doing it before will make it harder to dig through. 142.161.27.124 (talk) 01:59, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well the water would turn to ice after so if you do it before, it would be hard to dig through ice. Funjiking (talk) 16:27, 30 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't in the article anymore, but belated thanks, Funjiking. That would be a lot of water... I was taught that an ice shell on the inside (produced by heating) is preferable, which in terms of physics makes sense; the overlying snow will help keep the ice in compression (I mean, not a solid dome of ice, just well-metamorphosed snow). I've added this, with some sources, though better ones would be nice. HLHJ (talk) 01:08, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No citations, ridiculous content

The opening sentence of "Misconceptions" is:

According to quinzhee expert Scotty Kirkness, [...]

The concept of a "quinzhee expert" is as laughable as a "beach sand expert". I was unsurprised to find that a google search on that name pulls up only Wikipedia references. The "misconception" is itself ridiculous and apparently undocumented (again, google). This entire section has been deleted.

The section on "Dangers" has stuff on how to dig out the interior of the structure, asserting that To protect ones self against collapse during construction, one should only ever dig a qunizhee while on their knees, never their back. Frankly, this is insane: such a construction practice will encourage excavation of the lower wall sections, and leaving too much mass in the ceiling. Squish, upon failure. The section also reads a little too much like a WP:NOT#HOWTO. I recommend the entire section be removed, and may well get around to it shortly myself.

Up in the Differences between a quinzhee and an igloo section, one can read

Quinzhees are normally constructed in times of necessity, usually as an instrument of survival, so aesthetic and long-term dwelling considerations are normally exchanged for economy of time and materials.

Where the heck is this coming from? Quinzhee's take typically take many hours to construct (and the most useful kinds require an overnight sintering for maximum safety during construction and use), and invariabley involve the expenditure of large amounts of energy. The risk of simply overheating -- leading to sweating, and then to chilling -- is non negligible. It is unlikely anyone in a "survival" situation is going to be building a quinzhee when simply tunneling into a drift would do the job in a fraction of the time and effort. mdf (talk) 23:19, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, since I have built many snow houses as a kid and did army winter training here in Sweden:

1: The current construction advice in the article is really bad. We had better advice over at igloo before but it got removed.

2: In open flat areas (such as on open ice) there often are no drifts to tunnel into, then your only option is to build a snow house or die. And no, a snow house doesn't take many hours to construct if you know what you are doing. Pile up your equipment, or even use your skis etc and drape something over them, then pour snow over it. Then you don't need to fill up the interior and don't need to dig out the interior as much.

3: The effect of getting warm while doing the job is normally considered a positive effect from a survival point of view. See, building the snow house gives people something positive to do instead of giving up and thus gets them moving and keep them warm instead of sitting down in despair. And the trick is of course to only work at a moderate pace so you do not sweat. That is also taught in survival classes and I know from experience that it is pretty easy to work at a moderate pace. And even if you get sweaty it isn't that much of a problem. The danger of sweating is almost a myth, it is greatly exaggerated.

4: And no, the sintering is not that necessary. Instead just pat the house with your spades or hands to compact it enough to be stable, then dig out the door. But remember, never dig out the door and the internals if you are alone (unless you are alone and have to survive), since it might still collapse, trap and suffocate you. My experience says that say 70% of the time you can free yourself when it collapses over you, so you still have a way better better chance even if that happens, compared to sitting down and not building the house when needed. Thankfully, if you compact the house properly before digging into it then collapses are rare. And actually, the advice to stand on the knees actually is pretty good: You can do most of the digging/finishing of the interior while standing on the knees or sitting on your butt, and if it collapses over you when in those positions you usually have no problem to free yourself. (But I never bothered about that since I never built snow houses alone.)

--David Göthberg (talk) 17:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well i have a few experiences with building quinzhees because i have done one and they do take many hours to build. And getting sweaty is a problem, because you do get really cold once you settle down. With my experience i thought that sweating was not a big problem so i ignored it.... a big mistake, got really cold at night. And there is very wrong misconception in this article, the pile cant be made naturally, you can still use them in emergencies as long as it is packed down nice and tight. Here are my steps I made for my quinzhee. The following are my steps in making a Quinzhee Some important factors of making a Quinzhee is location, snow quality and settling time. First we find a location to build our Quinzhee. Its important to place the door facing away from the wind or else its going to be very cold with lots of wind blowing in. By facing the trees you will avoid this phenomenon. Also find a place that doesn’t have a lot of long grass or rocks because it will weaken your structure. Next you mark the outside of the Quinzhee; it should be 6 inches larger then the size to fit 2 people. Then you should start piling up the snow. The snow should go 6 inches higher then when you’re sitting down. This may take a few hours to do, try not to get to sweaty or else you will become cold. And make sure that the pile is not a square or it will collapse (this has happened before) make it a dome. Then here comes when snow quality plays in. The grainier and hard the snow is, the longer it has to settle, the more wet and heavy, the faster. After settling have a friend stand outside and hollow out the inside, wear waterproof clothing to prevent getting wet. Wear goggles to protect your eyes. You can stick 6in. sticks into the walls to know when to stop digging. Then you want to strengthen it by using candles and glazing the walls and celling of the quinzhee Funjiking (talk) 16:23, 30 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong Category

The category category:Traditional Native American dwellings is U.S.-centric and does not apply to the Athabaska in the North. In Canada, the term First Nations is used, not "Native American". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.219.254.84 (talk) 17:18, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Image

Is the second image (A quinzhee made in Finland) a quinzhee or an iglo (as in the title of the image and its category)? Hobbema (talk) 00:10, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Height/Diameter Conversions are wrong

> Snow is typically piled 1.5 to 2 meters (6 to 10 feet) high in a dome 3 to 4 meters (10 to 12 feet) in diameter.

...should read something like:

Snow is typically piled 1.5 to 2 meters (5 to 6.5 feet) high in a dome 3 to 4 meters (10 to 13 feet) in diameter.

1.5m is about 4'11"

2m is about 6'7"

3m is about 9'10"

4m is about 13'1" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.56.238.158 (talk • contribs) 05:53, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've replaced all manual conversions with the {{convert}} template. Mind matrix 14:02, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

About lumitalo

In Finland we say "lumikammi" when it's made as a shelter and "lumilinna" (literaly snow castle" when it's made for fun, like town of Kemis lumilinna. The word "kammi" is from Sami language (gámme).

https://fi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammi 37.33.240.125 (talk) 06:00, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]