Talk:Pygmalion (play)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2020 and 30 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): RSank17.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Concept

Perhaps Shaw meant that Higgins "brought Eliza to life" for the lonely language scholar the same way Venus brought Galataea to life for the lonely sculptor. Uncle Ed 12:22, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The reference to a "rigid class structure" in Britain is wrong. The class system was always very flexible in Britain - much more so than in the USA today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 07:57, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia

Removed this from article:

"In the scene where Eliza is practicing her "H's", she sits down in front of a spinning mirror attached to a flame. Every time she says her "H's" correctly, the flame jumps. If you look closely at the paper she is holding in her hand when it catches fire, you will see handwritten upon it the dialog that she and Professor Higgins have been saying previous to this. "Of course, you can't expect her to get it right the first time," is the first line written on the paper."

It would be more appropriate in the film's article - I think its about the 1964 film. Jihg 17:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The singer Eliza Doolittle chose the stage name of Eliza Doolittle, the Pygmalion and My Fair Lady character, because it was her nickname as a child. https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Eliza_Doolittle_%28singer%29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.253.95.41 (talk) 09:50, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Eliza?

Eliza was an uncommon name in England at the time of the play? I'd like to see the evidence for that. In fact, the way that Higgins and Pickering tease her when she first arrives with the rhyme "Eliza, Elizabeth, Betsy and Bess..." suggests that the audience was assumed to be very familiar with the name as a variant of Elizabeth.

I have no evidence, so it's not going in the article, but Shaw may have been aware of the Eliza Armstrong case, where a girl was bought for five pounds, exactly Doolittle's sum. (Although, admittedly, he said that if he'd suspected immoral ends he'd have asked fifty.) Steve Graham (talk) 19:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Edits

This article is consistently undergoing massive editing. Further large edits should be explained in the talk page so that everyone knows what everyone else is doing. Jeni Mc 14:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like the last person to desribe the plot ran out of steam after Act III. I altered that section somewhat, and provided substantial elaboration on Acts IV and V. Novus 23:55, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Act 3

"It is indeed a very hard job but both the men are up for the bet!" This sounds like a POV. Statements like this could be reworded. Thanks! Jeni Mc 14:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

2007 Broadway Revival

Should this entry make any mention of the 2007 Broadway revival of the play currently starring Claire Danes? Pesatros 03:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nobel and Oscar

I have removed "George Bernard Shaw is the only person to have been awarded both a Nobel Prize (Literature - 1925) and an Academy Award (Pygmalion - 1939)." from Trivia, as it is no loger true (Al Gore). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.136.185.81 (talk) 09:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I reworded it as "was the first person..." in order to make it still true. :-) --_{tiny plastic} Grey Knight ⊖ 11:58, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia

This has been dispersed elsewhere in the article: the unreferenced fact has only moved into the Footnotes which often happens. No objection to getting rid of it.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 10:00, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Were you looking at an old version of the article? The unreferenced fact moved into the footnote was moved to an approximately appropriate place with a reference, about five hours before your comment above :-) Shreevatsa (talk) 14:26, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My comment was made after your first edit: I dispersed part of the Trivia on one occasion and the rest some time later. Removing the Trivia does not mean moving every item into the perfect place and checking all the dubious statements.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 10:26, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Adaptations

Isn't the movie "Pretty Woman" based off of Pygmalion/My Fair Lady? Cngcng (talk) 02:12, 10 March 2010 (UTC)cngcng[reply]

Early Performance in German at Irving Place Theatre in NYC

I'm just researching Irving Plaza and I noticed a NY Times story from March 25 1914 which indicates (I don't have an account) that Pygmalion was performed in German at the Irving Place Theatre in NYC prior to London. I hesitate to mess with the article, but it might be worth mentioning. Was the Vienna premiere also in German? (another ref.Wwwhatsup (talk) 00:40, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The 1914 Irving Place production would be an excellent addition! Maybe in the "First productions" section?

Yes, the Vienna premiere was in German. The article (an edit of a lecture) from The Independent, linked in footnote 23, begins, "Why was George Bernard Shaw's Pygmalion first produced in German, in Vienna?" Also see the abstract linked in footnote 12, and less directly, Bernard Shaw's Letters to Siegfried Trebitsch (accessible at Google Books).

Thanks for finding that terrific article :) -- LaNaranja (talk) 11:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Very good. I did spot another, probably findable, ref that said the NYC performance opened a day or two later than planned, so actual date should be double checked. As for Irving Place it's a remarkable story - I'm still gathering refs - see here. Wwwhatsup (talk) 12:32, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Eliza Doolittle / Elise Egloff

In Siwtzerland and Germany it is assumed, that the missaliance of Elise Egloff (article only in the german Wikipedia) and professor Friedrich Gustav Jakob Henle could be the inspiration for Eliza Doolittle and prof. Higgins. Henle was professor at Heidelberg University and so Henry Sweet knew the story from there. Some german and swiss authors applied the story litarily, for example Gottfried Keller in the novella “Regine”, which was reviewed by The Spectator and the Saturday Review. More Information (German): here. --Superikonoskop (talk) 09:32, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Pygmalion

I have been beefing up Template:Pygmalion. Maybe I am losing my intellectual steam or something, but I find myself unable to determine which of the following belong in the template:

Maybe

Probably not

--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:50, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am unsure which films and books after 1956 should be in Template:Pygmalion and/or Template:My Fair Lady.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say "no" with respect to Lady for a Day on the basis that Pygmalion is barely mentioned in the article and it seems to have had limited influence on that piece. Pretty Woman, I'd also say no: Geer's character picks up a hooker, but he doesn't teach her to be a lady, he just buys her clothes. In fact, the hotel manager is the only one who teaches her anything. I don't see a direct enough connection. The King, I'd say yes, as it is a precursor to Pygmalion. Invitation: I can't tell from what the article says. Pyg: I find the supposed connection to Pygmalion dubious. With respect to all of the above, at a minimum, I think you need to show a WP:RS, like a mainstream newspaper critic, or the playwright's statement, that says "this is based on Pygmalion". -- Ssilvers (talk) 09:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pygmalion issues help wanted

I have been attempting to refine improper linking to Pygmalion (play) and Pygmalion (mythology), and I could use some assistance cleaning up {{Pygmalion}}, {{Pygmalion navbox}}, and {{My Fair Lady}} (the latter two which I have recently created). I have posted some particular issues in the thread above. Please feel free to jump in and edit the templates or leave comments there.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:53, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

First presented to public

Can anyone clarify when Pygmalion was first presented to the public? I would love to edit this myself but have no data. The introduction says it was first presented in 1912, but the First Productions section says 1913.

Also can anyone re-write this: "She came on board almost immediately, but her mild nervous breakdown (and its doctor-enforced seisure, which led to a quasi-romantic intrigue with Shaw) contributed to the delay of a London production"? I have no idea what it's supposed to mean or I would take a crack at it. Ivesiana (talk) 22:56, 12 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Ivesiana that that phrase makes no sense; since no one's clarified it, I'm taking it out. 11 Arlington (talk) 23:04, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted apparent vandalism

"2602:301:7754:AA0:5AB0:35FF:FE5D:C16F" has inserted a strange and as far as I can tell, totally invented "tragic ending" for the play. I've removed it. 11 Arlington (talk) 23:03, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It was a parody of the ending of Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen. Paul B (talk) 18:25, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Reviews

I wanted to add a short section (most likely only a few sentences) about the play's critical reception and I was wondering if anybody had any input regarding where in the article that should go. Not sure if it would be more appropriate in the First Productions section or in the Influence section.128.239.198.52 (talk) 17:29, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Annotated bibliography of new critical sources, spring 2020

Azizmohammadi, Fatemeh; Zohreh, Tayari. Sexism or Gender Discrimination in George Bernard Shaw’s Pygmalion. Language in India. pp. 161–165. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) This article discusses the role of gender and discrimination in a woman’s life. The introduction examines the importance of “…the conditions and the period in which the play was written” (1). Many writers incorporated “the ugly reality of Victorian society…” (1) in their works. As the article continues the author discusses gender discrimination and how Eliza is treated as an object. The text also points towards the idea that Shaw portrays women as victims. However, at the same time, women try to attract men’s attention. Overall, “Sexism or Gender Discrimination in George Bernard Shaw’s Pygmalion” explores many valid ideas regarding “Pygmalion” by exploring the perceptions of men and women. The text primarily implies that disregarding women is achieved through the actions of both men and women. Women try to gain men’s attention which causes men to treat them as objects.

-Haley.carter1 (talk) 8 March 2020

Gainor, J. Ellen (1997) [1991]. "Patriarchy in Pygmalion". In Jacobus, Lee A. (ed.). The Bedford Introduction to Drama (3rd ed.). Boston: Bedford Books. pp. 875–76. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) In this reprinted note, Gainor argues that Eliza is a victim of the three father figures in her life: Doolittle, Higgins, and Pickering. Each have certain expectations of Eliza and attempt to make her in the image they desire. —Grlucas (talk) 16:16, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Janechek, Jennifer (22 March 2018). ""Gendered Information Networks and the Telephone Voice in Shaw's Pygmalion and Village Wooing"". Texas Studies in Literature and Language. 60 (1): 32–56. Retrieved 9 March 2020. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) In this article, the author argues that Shaw's views on speech standardization, phonetic expression, and the English language heavily informed his writing of Pygmalion. The article also draws parallels between the "purification" of Eliza's speech and the advent of the telephone, which led to gendered notions of female speech. -EmmaKDarnell (talk) 20:14, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yohanes, Tuaderu (2017). ""Class Struggle as a Reaction toward the Social Condition in Capitalist Society as Reflected in George Bernard Shaw's Pygmalion."". Jurnal KATA: Penelitian tentang Ilmu Bahasa dan Sastra. 1 (1): 1–14. doi:10.22216/jk.v1i1.1698. Retrieved 3/8/2020. {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help) Tuaderu Yohanes's journal discusses the class system and how it is shown by Shaw in his play "Pygmalion". This journal shows the working pieces of capitalism in the early twentieth century through this play. Yohanes also argues that the struggle of the character Liza Doolittle is, essentially, an advocate for the struggling working class which is being put aside by the capitalists of the time.

Bridgett James (talk) 02:53, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Porten, Lilie (1 September 2006). ""The Metamorphosis of Commodities in Shaw's Pygmalion"". 17 (3): 69–86. doi:10.1215. Retrieved 10 March 2020. {{cite journal}}: Check |doi= value (help); Cite journal requires |journal= (help); Invalid |ref=harv (help) Lilie Porten's article discusses how Shaw's play undermines the transformative nature of education. Further, Porten asserts that the play explores the commodification of things through a market economy and subtly blurs the boundary between animate and inanimate.

RSank17 (talk) 10:02, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Utell, Janine. "Adaptation and sound in Pygmalion: the subject of the voice." Literature-Film Quarterly, vol. 44, no. 1, 2016, p. 60+. Gale Literature Resource Center, https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/A448441456/LitRC?u=maco12153&sid=LitRC&xid=62e00ac9. Accessed 10 Mar. 2020. This article recognizes the miscommunication that is between Higgins and Eliza. It also speaks on the play and how people wanted to have a "happy ending" instead of Eliza marrying another man. The article talks about Eliza being prevented from her freedom. Sapp, Ivy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivy.sapp (talk • contribs) 16:16, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Citoid junk

I apologize for the social media junk left in one of the citations I added. I was working in WP:Visual Editor with the Citoid service. I've reported this as a bug. Elizium23 (talk) 02:20, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Era

When, according to the script itself, is the play set? Does it take place in "present day" (ca. 1913 = Edwardian England)? Thank you, Maikel (talk) 10:13, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]