Talk:Puss in Boots

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Puss in Boots article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Puss in Boots was one of the Language and literature good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 6, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed
March 28, 2023	Good article reassessment	Delisted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 24, 2009.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Charles Perrault's The Master Cat, or Puss in Boots existed in a handwritten and illustrated manuscript a full two years before its publication in Histoires ou contes du temps passé in 1697?

Current status: Delisted good article

Children's literature High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Children's literature, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Children's literature on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Children's literatureWikipedia:WikiProject Children's literatureTemplate:WikiProject Children's literaturechildren and young adult literature

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tasks you can do:

Here are some open tasks for WikiProject Children's literature, an attempt to create and standardize articles related to children's literature. Feel free to help with any of the following tasks.

Add {{Portal|Children's literature}} to the See also section of related articles.
Tag the talk pages of related articles with {{WikiProject Children's literature}}
Join WikiProject Children's literature and list yourself as a Participant in the project.
Cleanup: A cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category, the tool's wiki page and the index of WikiProjects.
Deletion discussions: listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Literature
Notability: Articles with notability concerns, listed at WikiProject Notability
Rate the Unassessed articles in the Children's literature WikiProject.
References: Add references to Unreferenced BLPs.
Requested articles: Create a requested article on literature
Stubs: Improve a stub-class article

edit

Novels: Short story High‑importance

	Novels portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to novels, novellas, novelettes and short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.NovelsWikipedia:WikiProject NovelsTemplate:WikiProject Novelsnovel
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Short story task force (assessed as High-importance).

France Mid‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Titles

The moderately well-prepared Wikipedia reader will search "Puss in Boots". That is the criterion for a clear and unpretentious title for an article. The opening sentence's bolding may often be more correct or more complete. Bolding phrases that redirect to the article help orient readers who have arrived via redirection. Elaborate titles need piped links every time they are mentioned elsewhere.--Wetman (talk) 18:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. It appears that the page about various incarnations of the character has already been dealt with. If you need any further admin assistance on this move, please let me know. -GTBacchus^(talk) 02:52, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Le Maistre Chat, ou le Chat Botté (Puss in Boots) → Puss in Boots — The title/phrase "Puss in Boots" entered the English language in 1729 with the first translation into English of Perrault's fairy tale by Robert Samber. This article discusses that translation and Perrault's original text and thus this article is the primary topic. However, some difficulty has been met in attempting the move and admin help is requested. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 20:29, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This needs to be changed one way or the other since the current title is inaporpiate since it implies that there are two or more articles titled Le Maistre Chat, ou le Chat Botté. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.66.191.64 (talk) 02:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question The version is the most known one among varieties of the story. However, do you have any idea how to handle the title of Puss in Boots (fairy tale) together if this article is moved to Puss in Boots? In my opinion, the latter can be renamed as Puss in Boots (character) since it deals with the puss in various versions of the story.--Caspian blue 08:31, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- I agree. The Puss in Boots (fairy tale) article examines Cats as Helpers and Animals as Helpers in fairy tales rather than Perrault's tale. I think the article should be moved per your suggestion. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 10:40, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I already expressed my stance, but this clarification is for the admin who would judge the request. The tale, commonly known as "Puss in Boots" began to be known as such since Perrault's book was published, so it should take the title as the primary topic.--Caspian blue 19:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do not understand Kathyrncelestewright's removal of the Request Move tag twice. Even if the title was at the English title of the original French name, the article should be at the "commonly known title", Puss in Boots. Besides, the original request at the RM page still is live.--Caspian blue 20:26, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Where is the story?

Apart from the very minimal outline in the introduction, I had expected a more fleshy summary of (the main variants of) the tale. Where does the Marquis de Carabas fit in, for instance? Searching for that title brings one here, only to be left dangling. 178.237.74.251 (talk) 13:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Puss in Boots/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi. Will be reviewing soon. :) Kaguya-chan (talk) 13:05, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
There are a few sentences that need refs

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Comments:

I'm worried that the lead is too long. WP:LEAD suggests that for a page around 32 kilobytes, the lead should be around 2—3 paragraphs.
- Done. Trimmed the lead. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 19:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note 1 needs a source
- Done. The reference for this note is found in the main body of the text at [note 1][15]. Apparently this is the only way to format such a reference. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 19:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Will finish up review soon. :) Kaguya-chan (talk) 13:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Perrault's "The Master Cat, or Puss in Boots" is the most renowned tale in all of Western folklore of the animal as helper." definitely needs a ref. Or two, since that's an incredible claim.
- Done. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 19:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"The volume contained an additional tale L'Adroite Princesse by Mlle l'Héritier," why not just refer to the author by her full name?
- Done. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 19:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Since that publication, the tale has been translated into various languages and published around the world." I don't doubt it, but would like to see a ref anyway
- Done. Deleted as I cannot find my source on this! Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 19:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Perrault's son Pierre Darmancour was assumed to have been responsible for the authorship of Histoires with the evidence cited being the book's dedication to Elisabeth Charlotte d'Orleans, the niece of Louis XIV, which was signed 'P. Darmancour'. Perrault senior, however, long was known to have been interested in contes de veille or contes de ma mère l'oye, and in 1693 published a versification of "Les Souhaits Ridicules" and, in 1694, a tale with a Cinderella theme called "Peau d'Ane". needs a ref
- Done. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 19:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Perrault's great achievement was accepting fairy tales at "their own level." He neither recounted them with impatience nor mockery, and without feeling that they needed any aggrandisement such as a frame story—although he must have felt it useful to end with a rhyming moralité. Perrault would be revered today as the father of folklore if he had taken the time to record where he obtained his tales, when, and under what circumstances" should probably be rewritten to something like "They felt Perrault's great achievement was accepting fairy tales at "their own level." ..." to be neutral. Same with "Puss is "the epitome of the educated bougeois secretary who serves his master with complete devotion and diligence." "According to , Puss is "the epitome of ..."
- Done. 19:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Overall, this is a well written, interesting article. :) I'm putting it on hold to give some time for the issues to be addressed. Kaguya-chan (talk) 19:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome. :) Since all the concerns have been addressed, I'll pass the article. Great job! Kaguya-chan (talk) 22:05, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is this really the original story?

It has been claimed that The Fox-Matchmaker came first: http://www.jstor.org/pss/1261067 The Fox-Matchmaker is an identical story except a fox plays the role of the cat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boenna (talk • contribs) 20:04, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the tale has folklore origin. There is a Russian version with a fox, where the human protagonist is called Kuzma Skorobogaty ("Kuzma the Quick-Rich"), and also a Turkish version, which has a curious PS - the protagonist proves ungrateful to the fox who then reveals to the princess his real background. There must be something about this story in Aarne-Thompson. I have no Aarne-Tompson at hand, so I hope somebody will search for the tale.128.72.111.234 (talk) 12:33, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dead link

I clicked on the link to the audio version of the story in French. However, the site to which I was directed said, in French, there was no such page. Delete the link? RedRabbit (talk) 11:55, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Conflation with story of Dick Whittington and his Cat

See Talk:Dick Whittington and His Cat#Conflation with Puss in Boots Bogger (talk) 07:42, 12 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I concur, the Italian origin angle is incorrect, ‘Dick Whittington and his booted Cat’ folklore was 100 years before the supposed Italian author was even born.....Roland Of Yew (talk) 14:17, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Chronologically Dick Whittington Has Precedence

@Bogger: Richard Whittington and his booted cat was published nearly 100 years before the Italian version. I can offer primary and secondary sources as well as citations from the British Museum. However, before I start editing and I think it’s only fair to have a debate. Roland Of Yew (talk) 18:41, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Roland Of Yew so have you added the sources? Esteban Outeiral Dias (talk) 18:23, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Enough to make a cat laugh

When I looked up the origins of the phrase "enough to make a cat laugh" I found that it dates from the mid-19th century and is associated with the story of Puss in Boots. Perhaps someone might want to do some further research on that? WordwizardW (talk) 23:57, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Reassessment

Puss in Boots

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Speedy delist due to copyright issues. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:25, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is another GAR as the result of Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/ItsLassieTime. In this one almost the entire article was written by User:Kathryncelestewright, a sock of ILT. While I saved what I could the article after removing that content is nowhere close to a GA. I also checked to see if others had verified the sources after the fact and couldn't find anyone. Wizardman 23:23, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.