Talk:Prodigal Son (TV series)

Ratings error episode 4

It looks like TVbythenumbers got their numbers a bit jumbled for the fourth episode as its supposed to be 3.18 million not 3.81 million. The episode was preempted in several markets for sports and had initial numbers of 3.61 million, see here [1] common sense says that a show preempted for sports in several markets doesn't gain viewers, it loses them. There's also the issue of later airings in markets that were preempted being factored into the Live viewer totals later on, so I would advise not using L+7 sources as a basis for the L+SD numbers in the episodes table, it wouldn't make sense. Ugh what a mess. Esuka (talk) 22:30, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

I fixed it. It is now 3.18. — YoungForever^(talk) 22:43, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Production Stopped?

I think you should put that the production stopped due to the coronavirus. They were supposed to film 22 episodes, they only filmed 20 episodes. So it needs to know why episode 20 is the season finale instead of episode 22. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.151.27.25 (talk) 23:35, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Source? You need a reliable source to confirm that. — YoungForever^(talk) 23:59, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Catherine Zeta-Jones

Catherine Zeta-Jones is part of the main cast, but billed as a special guest star. When she was cast for the second season, she was also cast as part of the main cast. Here is the casting reliable source: and here is official cast website: which shows she is part of the main cast. Both are on the article itself. Here is a third reliable source from FOX Press Release website (not on the article, but can be added in if needed) that she is credited alongside with the rest of the main cast: I believe it is misleading to demote her as Recurring as she is actually part of the main cast. — YoungForever^(talk) 04:30, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to be slow replying, but I wated to do some homework. I see the contadictions between CZJ's on-screen billing, and what sources may say. The problem is, your two Fox sources describe everyone as cast, but don't explicitly identify her as main cast, so they're no help, although truth be told, absent the billing, I'd very likely have assumed she was main cast, too. The Andreeva article is similar; lead is ambiguous.

Having lived on top of the industry my whole life, I've picked up a thing or two. Billing is contractual, and negotiated by the actor. There are two types of cast, main and guest; were CJZ main cast but not billed before the title, she'd be billed as also starring. But she's not, she's billed as a special guest star, which explicitly makes her guest cast. The final word on this is the MOS:TV, whic is quite clear: we list cast as they're billed on screen, so she has to go with the recurring cast. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmargi (talk • contribs) 00:17, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

@Drmargi: Agree to disagree, none of the reliable sources are ambiguous. The Deadline Hollywood source stated on the article that she was set to star. As for the official Fox website and the press release website, they both only show the main cast and do not list any recurring/guest starring cast. Do you see any regular recurring/guest starring cast on both Fox websites there? How is it appropriate to demote Catherine Zeta-Jones as Recurring? Here is another reliable source that stated she was cast as a series regular and not as recurring cast member: — YoungForever^(talk) 00:38, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Gracious, you give me a lot of credit for determining CZJ's status. First off, the notion that she is being "demoted" to recurring guest cast is an entertainment media nonsense, and I don't have the power to do it. This is really very simple: according to MOS:TV, we must list cast as they are billed. CZJ is billed as a special guest star, which is guest cast. Because she appears in seven episodes, she's recurring. Consequently, placing her where she is on the cast list is appropriate. I have no idea why the media describe her as main cast; perhaps that was the plan before the show was canceled. It's all speculation, and on-screen billing is the final word. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 21:56, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

@Drmargi: Being as special guest star, doesn't make anyone automatically a guest star or recurring. Sometimes, a special guest star is part of the main cast and other times a special guest star is part of the recurring or guest starring cast. See Melrose Place, where Heather Locklear was billed as a special guest star for the entire series even though she was promoted as a series regular for the second season. — YoungForever^(talk) 20:58, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, it does; a special guest star is just that, a guest star. And frankly, what happened with Heather Locklear in 1994 has nothing to do with CJZ today; that's a bit of a reach at best, even if it is true. Regardless, MOS:TV still applies. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 19:34, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

@Drmargi: Yet, you have flat out demoted Catherine Zeta-Jones to Recurring based on WP:OR. She isn't billed as a regular guest star, in fact, she is actually billed before the regular guest stars. So, you are pretty much contradicting yourself. I have several reliable sources including official Fox cast and press release websites to back up claims that she is a series regular, but billed as a special guest star. Here are more reliable sources that clearly states that she is a series regular: The Hollywood Reporter source and the Entertainment Weekly source — YoungForever^(talk) 20:11, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

@Drmargi: FYI, it is not a consensus when you chose to contradict yourself and demoted her to Recurring based on clearly WP:OR. She is clearly billed before regular guest stars. — YoungForever^(talk) 17:30, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

It's time to let this go. Nothing I'm saying is contradictory; I've been consistent all along. I'm neither promoting nor demoting anyone; that's utter nonsense. She is listed in the article based on her on-screen billing, per MOS:TV, period. That the show chose to situate her "special guest star" billing prior to the remaining guest stars doesn't alter the fact that the operative word describing her role is guest star. Frankly, you're taking this too personally. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 17:45, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Drmargi: I am not letting it go. If you think this is a consensus, you are sadly mistaken. I am going to request for RFC. Yet, you have no reliable sources to back them at all. She was on here as part of the main cast, but with a note stating she is a series regular, but billed as a special guest star for months. When out of nowhere, you decided to demote as Recurring just because she is credited as a special guest star. She is even listed as a lead in the about the show section of the official website About the show. — YoungForever^(talk) 18:21, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

References

RfC about Catherine Zeta-Jones on the Cast section

Should Catherine Zeta-Jones list as part of the Main cast with reliable source(s) that clearly stated she is a series regular and a note stating she is billed as special guest star, but is a series regular for the second season or list her as Recurring cast just she is billed as a special guest star? — YoungForever^(talk) 13:36, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

• Recurring, per MOS:TV. CZJ is billed as a special guest star, and appears in seven episodes, which makes her role recurring. Moreover, her role is in a single plot line. Sourcing that she is main cast is dated, and in some cases ambiguous (see discussion above) and may reflect casting decisipns made before the show was rather unexpectedly canceled. But regardless, MOS:TV is clear that we list her as she is billed; she is not billed among the main cast but with the guest cast following the main titles. Her billing is special guest star, which by definition is not main cast. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 18:24, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
• (edit conflict) Keep her listed as recurring - Summoned by bot. I just watched the first Zeta-Jones episode on Hulu (S2, E7), and she is named in the opening credits as a "special guest star" immediately after Sheen's name is shown as the last of the list of main cast members. Per MOS:TV, Please keep in mind that though "main" cast members are determined by the series producers (not by popularity, screen time, or episode count) and generally have a set order in the credits, recurring and guest stars will not necessarily be credited in the same order in each episode in which they appear, so their place in the list should be based on the order of credits in the first episode that they appear. If it's any consolation, she's also mentioned in the casting section, where I just edited her mention to clarify that she was only there for the second half of season two. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:31, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
• Main cast with reliable source(s) that clearly stated she is a series regular and a note stating she is billed as special guest star, but is a series regular for the second season because she was cast a series regular with multiple reliable sources clearly confirmed that (not ambiguous). In addition, both the official website and press release website listed her with the main cast. On the Futon Critic, for the series also listed her as part of the "principal cast" aka the main cast in this case. Yes, I am aware of MOS:TVCAST. Special guest stars are not always guest stars/recurring automatically, sometimes they are part of the main cast and other times, they are part of recurring/guest starring cast. This case isn't just black-and-white like it seemed, this case is a special case. — YoungForever^(talk) 20:13, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
• Recurring She only appeared in few episodes in the second season with a limited role. Sea Ane (talk) 22:32, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
• Comment This seems to me like a similar situation to Matt Ryan appearing as Constantine on Legends of Tomorrow. Because Ryan was pre-established as the character, he received "Special Appearance by" credit once he was made a main cast member in season 4. I don't recall if he had this credit in every episode, or only as he appeared, but that series, per sourcing confirming he was a main cast member, lists him as a main cast member. So in this instance, I'd say maybe list as a main cast member with the third party source, plus a note explaining the on-screen credit and the episode appearances. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:07, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

  Comment @Favre1fan93: I am certain that Matt Ryan as Constantine on Legends of Tomorrow is still currently credited as "Special Appearance by" as of the latest episode of the current season. — YoungForever^(talk) 17:29, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

  Yes, he still is. I was just trying to point out an alternate credit used for a main cast member, which seems similar to this instance. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:33, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

  As I recalled, there is also Timothy Dalton as Niles Caulder / the Chief on Doom Patrol who has only been credited as "Special Appearance by" ever since the pilot episode, but is part of the main cast. — YoungForever^(talk) 00:30, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

  Comment @Favre1fan93:, the problem your example is CZJ is not billed as making a special appearance, so how a special appearance was handled doesn't bear on this discussion. She's billed as a special guest star, which clearly identifies her as guest cast, and as such and given she made multiple appearances, must be listed as recurring on the cast list, per MOS:TV. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 18:56, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

• Recurring – she's no Heather Locklear. 😉 But seriously, per billing and episode count, seems pretty clear cut. If she had been in every episode or even most of the season, maybe we could consider her a Locklear-like exception, but she seems pretty textbook "special guest star" from what I can see. —Joeyconnick (talk) 17:59, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
• Recurring, per MOS:TV and she's is billed as a special guest star. BristolTreeHouse (talk) 13:13, 8 August 2021 (UTC)