Talk:Pro-ROC camp (Hong Kong)

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Requested move 16 February 2021

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is no consensus for a move at this time. BD2412 T 23:33, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pro-ROC camp (Hong Kong) → Pro-Taiwan camp (Hong Kong) – "Pro-Taiwan (camp)" is more common in the academic journals, mainstream media and even government's press release.[1][2][3][4] with 79,500 results on Google compared to "pro-ROC (camp)" 12,000 results. Additionally, it would lead to confusion with a title with abbreviation. FumiHayashi (talk) 01:51, 16 February 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 18:51, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Google trend, ["pro-Taiwan" more much common in Google search than "pro-ROC"] too. FumiHayashi (talk) 09:59, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This might indeed be how they go by more often these days. However, the current article mostly talks about the Pro-ROC camp's history, when it was unequivocally called the "pro-ROC camp" in the retrocession debate under british colonial rule. Before doing this move, it might be worth considering updating the article with the sources you have, or maybe creating a new article for the Pro-Taiwan camp after 1997. Mottezen (talk) 06:45, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The pro-ROC camp and the pro-Taiwan camp are actually the same group of people so it would not make sense to make a new article. The reason why the article focuses on the history is because the pro-Taiwan camp has declined since the 2000s and increasingly marginalised. FumiHayashi (talk) 09:59, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - It might be worth re-factoring this article and starting a new one as there is undoubtedly a pro-Taiwan camp and there was undoubtedly a pro-ROC/KMT camp in Hong Kong. These might overlap but they are obviously not the same. For example Hong Kong saw regular celebrations of Double 10 Day during the 1950's, 60's, and 70's, long before Taiwanese independence (which is how this title is likely to be understood) became a factor. See e.g., this report by Time from 1956 - it would be meaningless to describe the pro-nationalist people in this story as "pro-Taiwan". FOARP (talk) 11:23, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. As far as I can understand it from the article, although we have mostly updated "Republic of China" usage to say "Taiwan", in line with the fact that they are de facto the same thing on the ground, the usage in a Hong Kong context is different. Pro-ROC people in Hong Kong aren't aligning with the island of Taiwan in particular, but to the government there, which was the erstwhile government of the whole of China at one point, and in particular the sovereignty question of whether the ROC or the PROC is the legitimate government for the whole of China. As such, it seems better to stick with the present title to avoid confusion. — Amakuru (talk) 14:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. "Taiwan" as replacement of "ROC" can be seen as supporting independence of Taiwan. Although in laymens context, they are used interchangeably, it's very important in POLITICAL discussions to use the correct phrasing, and attach ourselves to higher-standards of political labels.Rwat128 (talk) 02:36, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.