Talk:Presidential system

South Sudan

What about South Sudan in the map? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Salvadorcases (talk • contribs) 03:41, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

A mishmash

This article is a mess. It mixes up a host of things

• a presidential system (which BTW doesn't mean a "president". It means "someone who presides", and so applies to monarchs and dictators also)
• A republican presidential system (which does mean president and is primarily associated with the US and countries who have modelled their constitutional systems on the US).

BTW the claim that presidential system is based on the US system is garbage. It is far older. The US system was for example based on the system of government in Great Britain in the 1770s, with the President stepping into the role of the Crown, and Congress a more clearly defined parliament.

It has also nothing to do with method of selection of a head of state. It has to do with the fact that the executive is not answerable to parliament, so cannot be voted out by a Vote of Confidence. They exist in separate spheres of influence.

I hope no-one used this garbled article in an essay in college. If they did they would have failed. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 20:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

There are so many parenthetical statements in your comments that I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying. However to say that "presidential system" just means a government with a presiding officer is confuse etymology with definition.

I concede that to use "republican presidential system" is a little more precise than just "presidential system," but this article makes it clear that "presidential system" only pertains to republican democracies. The books I have read on this subject, like "Parliamentary Versus Presidential Government" by Arend Lijphart just use "presidential system" without the "republican."

This article discusses how the independence of the executive is an important criteria for presidential government too.Dinopup 00:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

First sentence: "president is not accountable to the legislature"

Obviously this is false. Each branch of American gov't is accountable to each other branch in at least one way. It's been a while since I had a civics or government class, but two checks/balances of the legislature on the executive immediately come to my mind: (1) impeachemnt and (2) the sole right of congress to declare war (which puts a check on the President in his role as Chief Commander of the A.F.).

The point is, this sounds like a borderline-vandalism comment by someone who doesn't like our current executive--but it is not good information.

No, it really doesn't. The article mentions impeachment, which really is the only way the President is directly accountable to Congress. Although Congress posesses powers the President does not and vice versa, Congress cannot hold the President accountable for his actions in any eay except to impeach him. Contrast this to other systems of government, when a legislative body can simply hold a vote to throw out the head of state. --joeOnSunset 00:20, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the president is accountable to Congress. The argument that the President cannot be removed in the face of impeachment as a fact of the matter is unreasonable. The president is also accountable to the people through elections. In the US, the president is also accountable to his party - which will lose elections in Congress every two years under an unpopular president. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.251.254.172 (talk) 10:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

"Congressional system" redirects here

I note that Congressional system is a redirect to Presidential system: should it be? There is a (rather unsatisfactory) "article" at Congress: it currently looks like a (very incomplete) disambiguation page. --Mais oui! 08:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Issues with introduction

The introduction to this article seems to have a discernable bias in favor of the British parilamentary form of government and against the American model of separation of powers. It seems historically ill-informed and misleading, possibly deliberately so, and would do well to be rewritten almost entirely to remove the unnecessary comparisons with Britain and focus on introducing the topic in an objective tone. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.161.124.235 (talk) 07:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC).

"military coups to remove a leader who is said to have lost his mandate, as in Salvador Allende"

On the "weaknesses" part there was this phrase: "Since there is no legal way to remove an unpopular president, many presidential countries have experienced military coups to remove a leader who is said to have lost his mandate, as in Salvador Allende." I removed the last four words because I believe them to be biased and propagandistic. Salvador Allende was not removed because "he had lost his mandate". He was killed by foreign-financed blood- thirsty extreme-right coupists, and was replaced by Pinochet, a non-elected, illegitimate military leader who ruled with total disregard for political and human rights. The way this phrase was written made it look like Pinochet did a favour to Chilean people by removing an unpopular president. Quite the opposite is true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.32.166.111 (talk) 19:59, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Inconsistent use of policy to enforce bias

I noticed that on the assertion that presidential systems tend to have less ideological parties, someone put the tag "citation needed", and yet that tag shows up very rarely in the remainder of the page. I am thus compelled to concluded that this is an abuse of policy for the purposes of enforcing bias.

This is an excellent illustration of why I have historically experienced a very strong negative emotional reaction to Wikipedia's policies more or less in general, if I am honest. Hypocrisy and the enforcement of bias, in the name of supposedly maintaining neutrality, are made far too easy.

Petrus4 (talk) 15:28, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Presidential Monarchy

Why not have a system with both a president (as head of government and state), a queen just to be traditional, and a legislature (like congress) to make the laws. I think australia should have a system like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.217.59.87 (talk) 10:13, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Thats nonsense. Every monarchy should be abolished. Once and for all.84.134.99.161 (talk) 17:12, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I recognize that I'm replying to a post from a decade ago, but regardless I felt I had to note that there actually have been monarchies that utilized the presidential system in the past (so it's not that bizarre of an idea). The Kingdom of Hawaii's system of government, for example, was patterned closely after that of the US and its States (not surprising, given the influence American missionaries and business interests had in the Kingdom); the monarch was both head of state and government, with powers very similar to those held by the President of the United States, or a Governor of a US State, with regard to executing laws, while an independent legislature made the laws, and an independent judiciary adjudicated the laws, and each branch having a check on the others in the exercise of their functions.—MNTRT2009 (talk) 19:13, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

186.188.238.66 (talk) 02:28, 14 February 2020 (UTC) Hey MNTRT2009, I believe you're talking about a Constitutional Monarchy where the monarch leads the executive, which was the form of government introduced by the first french constitution of the French Revolution. I personally don't like it because I like extremes (Presidential republics/Absolute monarchies), but that's ok. Hey 84.134.99.161, I know you're from Germany and I find it weird that you hate monarchies, since your country didn't suffered evil monarchies...

Where are the...

REFERENCES. I was hoping to get some help finding a site not wikipedia to cite for a paper. Found the info I want, but I need a citation that can withstand criticisms. I dont see a single reference in this article.205.250.62.216 (talk) 01:50, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Belarus

It's not really a democratie!84.134.57.73 (talk) 13:03, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

More Democratic?

I'm concerned about the passage:

"A prime minister is usually chosen by a few individuals of the legislature, while a president is usually chosen by the people. According to supporters of the presidential system, a popularly elected leadership is inherently more democratic than a leadership chosen by a legislative body, even if the legislative body was itself elected, to rule."

It sounds a little junior-high-school-ish. In the British parliamentary system, the electorate votes for a House of Commons which, in turn, selects a prime minister. In the American presidential system, the electorate votes for an electoral college which, in turn, selects a president. The two seem equivalent. Why does this author think the prime minister is chosen by just "a few individuals of the legislature"? Nothing is offered to support that view.

There are many differences in power, accountability and such between the two officers once they are elected, but that's a separate topic.

--Kjb (talk) 07:22, 6 November 2008 (UTC)G!\m/

I would have to disagree with saying that there is no difference between legislators and an electoral college in electing a country's head of state and/or head of government. When the Founding Fathers of the United States established the current system of government at the Constitutional Convention of 1787 (AKA the Philadelphia Convention), they feared having United States Congress elect the president because of the fact that the legislators might put the narrow interests of their constituents above the common good of the nation as a whole and on top of that could be more susceptible to manipulation (via bribery or requests for political favors (or "favours" for those who speak the Queen's English lol). An electoral college that is seperate from the legislature, on the other hand, is far less susceptible to the manipulation of interest groups and politicians being that they are generally sheilded from such groups and individuals (that and the fact that the electors are not chosen until after the commencement of the Presidential election, as opposed to members of Congress of which 90% on average are re-elected to Congress, thus further weakening the grip of politicians and interest groups in deciding who will become President once the Popular vote is complete). They also will be more likely to vote for a president based on what is best for the nation as a whole due to the fact that they do not face the pressure of re-election to serve a constituency that may put more or less importance on certain issues (such as healthcare, abortion, religious issues, and etc.) than what the nation as a whole would. I hope that explains the reasoning of why some countries (the United States in particular in this case) would favor an electoral college to elect a head of state and/or head of government than a legislature. Fuelsaver (talk) 21:56, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

This article should be replaced with several others.

Particularly because it wrongly associates a great deal of nations that all have executive Presidencies and then attempts to describe their systems with a very poor history and interpretation of the American system. Furthermore, the associated image would have you believe that the US and Iran have the same system of government, which is ridiculous--Iran has a Supreme Leader who is above the President, and a very complex system of entrenched councils that make the system very undemocratic. The article should be subdivided into articles about the American Presidential System and countries that use it (the US, et al) or some derived variation (Brazil, et al), as well as dictatorships with nominal legislatures whose dictators call themselves "President" (Cuba, et al). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.32.75 (talk) 19:12, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

The article contains almost no references and represents individual opinion. It presents a POV starting with the very term being used - a propaganda term. In describing the US - its basis is ignorance of the underlying political ideals - especially "a nation of laws and not of people." I note people arguing in support of this article comparing the "Presidential system" in the US to older European monarchies, etc. - in exact opposition to the nature sought by the designers of the US system. A clear distinction between the two is that in the US, the president is bound by the laws and the laws are directly checked for abuse of power (at least in the absense of corruption). Also notably, the US Constitution defines the Legislative Branch first, not the Executive; as they regarded the Legislative as being the most important. They also defined this federal part of overall government as having a very limited role in the affairs of the country. Thus, at least in intent and by definition - this article presents an invalid POV, no references are given to support the POV (only a couple of quotes in support of the POV, perhaps taken out of context), and no light is shown on the fact that the term "Presidential system" is used by a limited number of people and is generally contraversial. I believe that the article should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.251.254.172 (talk) 10:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

A topic of .....

Presidential rotation system has been added based on the following http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=%22presidential+rotation+system%22&btnG=Search --222.64.211.94 (talk) 10:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

so that all the dirty tricks maintain within a party, instead of spreading to the public

Further information: Risk management

--222.64.211.94 (talk) 10:08, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Move

Presidential system → Civil government presidential political system — This system is only used in civil government, not in politics (eg religiuos politics, ...) as a whole User:91.176.13.181 13:37, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

• Please discuss this multiple page move request here. Jafeluv (talk) 02:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Move discussion in process

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Politician which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. RFC bot (talk) 01:00, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

POV?

While I agree that the article needs more references, it seems to be a rather balanced article, so I don't understand Tocino's POV tag. Tocino, can you give some examples of non-neutral statements or undue weight on particular points of view? rspεεr (talk) 17:23, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Bias against the United States

This article is an absolute disgrace. The United States founded the presidential system as we know it, but the credit is given to European monarchies which has little to nothing in similarity. This article has been completely manipulated by typical arrogant europhiles. And on top of it, the US is accused as having an "Imperial Presidential system" What a load of S#2%T! Lets not rape history with our anti-americanism people. Give credit where credit is due. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.108.42 (talk)

I've removed some of the offedning text from the LEad. SInce it's about the presidential system, there;'s no need to take up half the space talking aboaut manarchies. Thant can go in a historical background section, with proper sources. - BilCat (talk) 04:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I have no issues with the change, but I think it's important to point out, that for all intents and purposes, what the Americans have is (To quote David Starkey) "An Elective Monarchy with a strong upper chamber". The Founding Fathers took what they felt was good about Constitutional Monarchies and attempted to put in "safe guards". As for your comment that the US has an Imperial Presidential System, at certain times in American history, this comment hits the nail on the head. When the President and Congress are of the same party, an Imperial President is essentially what happens. I don't say this as a bad thing, only because its an issue common to MANY, if not MOST forms of Government when Majorities are formed. Dphilp75 (talk) 15:26, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Yet the US system is the only one for which "Imperial" appears to be used. Hence the bias. Also, though the US has a party system, party disciple is not near-automatic as in many parlimentry system, so one party-rule is not as "imperial" as in other systems. Hence the bias. - BilCat (talk) 15:47, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree that largely the term "Imperial" in regards to a President is mostly used "against" the United States, but let's face it, that's what you get for being the biggest, most popular kid on the block. I'm not sure that I agree this amounts to a bias.

Further, I also agree that Party Discipline in the U.S. is nothing like it is in the UK, much less Canada, but again, historically speaking a President who enjoys his party having control over Congress does result in exactly what we are talking about. More often than not, such situations result in grumbling through out the party, but very few votes against the President's agenda.

Again, this is a problem inherent to MOST forms of "Democracy" in which Majorities can be formed. I'm certainly not bashing the U.S. on this issue; I simply want to make sure that the "truth" of the matter is acknowledged. Dphilp75 (talk) 16:02, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I have no problem with the "truth" being acknowledged, as long as it is cited from verifiable reliable sources, and the US is not singled out as if it were an abberation. There is a difference between a strong prsidential system and an "imperial" one, regardless of the tendecy of politicl scientists to hyperbolize. Hugo Chavez is an example of the latter, not any US president, as they all have left office one way or another.

I mean ZERO offense when I say this, but I think you may have a misunderstanding of the term. An Imperial President does not mean that they stay in office. It refers to a President who is able to act with "Imperial" powers, in so much as whatever actions he sees fit to take, is taken. This happens when the U.S. President has control of Congress. Let's be honest about this; A Democrat President with a Democrat Congress is, largely, the definition of an "Imperial President".

While I sympathize with your desire not to single out the U.S., it is the most obvious and preeminent example of the term, under the above circumstances. If it is just more examples you are looking for, I would point out that the President of France is in a VERY similar situation as the President of the United States, as are numerous other republics.

Going back to what I said about the problem being an issue with almost any Political system where majorities can be formed, we can point out the President of Germany is largely nothing more than an elected "Monarchical Figurehead", one could never accuse Germany of having an Imperial President, yet could easily suggest that under like circumstances, they would have an Imperial Chancellor.

I am assuming that you are an American yourself, (?) and I would urge you to take a step back from a Nationalist viewpoint and look at it with the facts. Dphilp75 (talk) 18:43, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Wanting something to be reported neutrally and in the correct context is nationalistic?? Please! - BilCat (talk) 19:04, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like we'd best wait for others to weigh in, as it appears that neither of us is getting the others point. 19:10, 13 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dphilp75 (talk • contribs)

If this is your point, the yes, we need more opinions, preferably some genuinel neutral ones. I'm done arguing with you. - BilCat (talk) 19:16, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not arguing with you now. I suggested that we wait for others to weigh in. I apologize if I have come across a little strong on this issue, and I assure you that it was never my intention to offend you! Let's allow time for others to drop their voices in and we'll go from there.Dphilp75 (talk) 19:23, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Imperial President is an interesting term. I've never heard it used before but growing up north of the border (Canada) the way I was taught about the US system was that it was essentially an elected monarchy. The powers of the president equalled that of a monarch from the 18th century. Which seems fairly accurate when you consider how "important" Americans consider their president, how much protection they're afforded, how proper they're expected to act, and how much actual power they wield in the government. Imperial President makes sense to me as a term. I don't really think it singles the United States out. The US is a large country and one of the earliest presidential systems in modern times. It makes sense that many people would give examples that use the United States. I wouldn't call this "bias" per se. Honestly, it seems more like US-centrism.

Also, with regards to party discipline, I believe Canada has one of the strongest systems of "party discipline" in the west. That has the unfortunate effect of allowing the Prime Minister to implement any ideological policy he wishes, with no opposition, in the case of majority governments (especially if he can appoint many people to the senate and get a majority there, too). However, I would disagree that this would make him an "Imperial Prime Minster" (as stated earlier) because the Prime Minister cannot sign bills in to law. They still require royal assent and the Governor General (or the Queen) can withhold their consent, even if it is highly unlikely and unusual. It was thought that Governor General Johnston might withhold his signature on a contraversial bill that sought to dismantle the Wheat Board. Liberal Party (interim) leader Bob Rae even wrote him a letter urging him to do so. Celynn (talk) 06:49, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

No History

No credit to the inventor. No progression. No... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.250.14.249 (talk) 20:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

"Paraguay"

The Republic of Paraguay adopts as its system of government a representative, participatory, and pluralistic democracy, which is founded on the recognition of human dignity. Paraguay is a Republic with an executive president dependent on a parliament.

Article 225 About Procedures (1) The president of the Republic, the vice president, cabinet ministers, justices of the Supreme Court, the attorney general, the public defender, the comptroller-general and the deputy comptroller-general of the Republic, and members of the Superior Electoral Court may be forced to undergo impeachment proceedings for malfeasance in office, for crimes committed in office, or for common crimes. (2) The Chamber of Deputies, by a two-thirds majority, will press the respective charges. The Senate, by a two-thirds absolute majority, will conduct a public trial of those charged by the Chamber of Deputies and, if appropriate, will declare them guilty for the sole purpose of removing them from office. In cases in which it appears that common crimes have been committed, the files on the respective impeachment proceedings will be referred to a competent court.

Besides, the Duties and Powers of Congress are, to approve the national budget once a year, and approve or reject treaties or other international agreements signed by the president of the Republic, to approve or to reject loan agreements, authorize, for a limited period of time, concessions for the exploitation of national or multinational public services or of assets belonging to the State, as well as for the extraction and processing of solid, liquid, or gaseous minerals, to "receive annually from the president of the Republic, at the start of each regular period of sessions, a report on the general situation of the country, on its administration, and government plans", to approve or reject, either partially or totally, after hearing the respective report by the Comptroller-General of the Republic, the report on the details and justification of public financial income and expenses related to the implementation of the budget, and many others. http://www.servat.unibe.ch/icl/pa00000_.html

Excuse my English (186.188.238.66 (talk) 02:34, 14 February 2020 (UTC) your english is indeed horrible, you should avoid using Google Translator here), Regards, Carlos Flores.

From what you have posted, that does not sound like the President is dependent on Congress. He is not elected by Congress, and Congress cannot remove him except by a special impeachment process with special supermajorities. The fact that he is required to make a 'state of the nation'-type report does not make him "dependent". The characteristic that defines "President dependent on Parliament" republics is that the President is removed if he loses a confidence vote in Parliament, and therefore that the President can only stay in office as long as his party or coalition has a majority in Parliament. This does not seem to be the case in Paraguay; the system there seems to be very similar to that in the USA, which is the standard example of a presidential system. - htonl (talk) 07:13, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

"The characteristic that defines "President dependent on Parliament" republics is that the President is removed if he loses a confidence vote in Parliament, and therefore that the President can only stay in office as long as his party or coalition has a majority in Parliament". And it's how work in Paraguay, Fernando Lugo, elected President of Paraguay in 2008, was impeached and removed from office by the Congress of Paraguay in June 2012. On 21 June the Chamber of Deputies voted 76 to 1 to impeach Lugo, and the Senate removed him from office the following day, by 39 votes to 4, resulting in Vice President Federico Franco, becoming President.

Background- Lugo was aided by the presence of Federico Franco of the traditional opposition party Authentic Radical Liberal Party (PLRA) on the ticket as Vice Presidential candidate. Lugo's electoral coalition, Patriotic Alliance for Change (APC), was able to elect him as President (gaining 42.3% of the vote, against the second-placed Colorado candidate's 31.8%). However the Liberals and Colorados retained a majority of both houses of Congress. The Liberal Party, initially a member of the Alliance, withdrew in 2009, leaving the Alliance with just a handful of Congressional seats. http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Impeachment_of_Fernando_Lugo

Excuse my English. Regards. Carlos Flores.-

Impeachment is not the same thing as a loss of confidence vote. If I understand what you posted about Article 225 above, it required a two-thirds absolute majority in each of the Houses of Congress to impeach the President. A confidence vote is just an ordinary majority vote, in most cases only in the lower house. The other big difference is that impeachment is only "for malfeasance in office, for crimes committed in office, or for common crimes". A President who is dependent on Parliament is required to resign just because he loses his parliamentary support, not because he is accused of anything criminal. - htonl (talk) 09:21, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Indeed the confidence vote is not made by a simple majority in Paraguay, but the word "Impeachment" and the translation is what can confuse, but impeachment in Paraguay, it's not necessarily for a criminal thing, only in cases in which it appears that common crimes have been committed, the files on the respective impeachment proceedings will be referred to a "competent court".

The Paraguayan Constitution in effect is based on the U.S. Constitution, but due to prolonged presidential dictatorship, the Constitution was drafted in 1992 gives greater powers to parliament, which is the only body that judges the other state bodies, in fact nowhere mentioned the "presidential system" is the system of government in the constitution.

Precisely this is why the system in Paraguay, is somewhat different from other presidential systems of the countries of South America.

This is an interview where one of the constituents that drafted, explains because it gives greater powers to parliament. (sorry is in Spanish). http://www.ultimahora.com/notas/538091-Esta-Constitucion-garantizo-el-proceso-electoral-democratico

Excuse my English. Regards. Carlos Flores.- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.125.33.22 (talk) 10:58, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I must remind you, that the 1992 constitution of Paraguay is very different from the 1967 constitution, that if it was a "presidential system", for example the President can not dissolve the legislative power and through the Executive Decree Disappears Law, added more powers of parliament:

-The Presidents of the two Houses of Congress come in the order of presidential succession, after the Vice President (Art. 234), as it did in 1999: "As the president of Paraguay's legislature, Luis Ángel González Macchi succeeded to the office of president on March 29, 1999 Following Six Days Earlier the assassination of the Vice President Luis Maria Argana, and the subsequent resignation of President Raul Cubas among accusations That the assassination was linked to Cubas's political movement.

-He embodies the confidence vote, with recommendation of removal from office (Art. 194).

-The vetoed of the president can be rejected by an absolute majority (Arts. 208 and 209), and not by a two-thirds majority (Art. 158/67).

. http://www.servat.unibe.ch/icl/pa00000_.html

Changes in the presidential system in the context of constitutional reform, entailed a need to seek consensus and agreements between the Executive and the Legislative to govern. Governance is closely linked to the potential presidential parliamentary alliances in Congress to achieve results in managing and overcoming conflicts of interest within the hegemonic party.

In other words, Paraguay with the constitution of 1992, is a joint government between parliament and the executive, there is no separation of powers which proclaim the "presidential system". Paraguay does not have a presidential system.

Excuse my English. Regards. Carlos Flores.- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.125.155.59 (talk) 22:11, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I can't actually see a significant difference between the Paraguayan system and the system in the United States, which is the standard example of a presidential system. The main characteristic of the presidential system is not about how much power the president has and how much the parliament has. It is about how the president is elected and removed. The article about Lugo's impeachment itself makes clear that the impeachment was considered very unusual, and even referred to as a "coup". In a system with a president who depends on parliament, it is a normal part of politics if parliament removes a president by a confidence vote. - htonl (talk) 22:28, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it was declared as a coup for countries with a strong presidential system, such as Venezuela, Bolivia and Argentina, (and by followers of Lugo) but for example, i know the constitution of Argentina and is different because the judge is in charge of the supreme court, and is accusing by the congress, it's hard for them, to understand what is, "loses a confidence vote". Moreover even some Argentine journalists rated the Paraguayan system as parliamentarism. "what in the Paraguayan Constitution is a political judgment, in Unasur is called breakdown of democracy and parliamentarism in Europe would be called: a censure motion leading to a change of government."http://elestadista.com.ar/?p=2442

But that's not an encyclopedic discussion was to judge whether or not coup, the technical body charged with judging the constitutionality and if you follow the constitution in Paraguay is the Supreme Court of Paraguay, and the electoral court, declared that Lugo had been duly removed from office under Article 225, and that Correctly Federico Franco had succeeded as President under Article 234. see "the Impeachment of Fernando Lugo", but the only thing clear, from the court decision, the case of Gonzales Macchi in 1999 or this, about Lugo in this year, is that, in Paraguay don't exist a real separation of power between the executive and the legislature, so we can't be said that is a "full presidential system". Excuse my English. Regards. Carlos Flores.- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.125.155.59 (talk) 00:21, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Gridlock is a bad thing?

This article cites gridlock as a criticism of the presidential system. It doesn't seem to state that for many Gridlock is a very desirable result. This is because anything that can be done quickly will likely be done poorly and having congress and the president too friendly will result in things being passed to quickly to be properly debated and not give constituents time to mount an opposition. A prime example of this would be the recent passage of Obamacare which only passed because of the lack of gridlock and polls have shown a strong preference for repeal ever since.Drewder (talk) 14:02, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Thailand's inclusion within Color legend displayed on World map

There's a certain shade of Green that represents Thailand. Why is it being excluded as a legend color with this specific Green? It's description for this color's representation should be like all of the others. If you take a good look at the map, there's one more color missing within it's equation since their's no description to describe Thailand that's shaded in a specific type of Green. There's basically no color legend for Thailand's representation within this subject matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cod1337 (talk • contribs) 22:10, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Mistake in the definition

Opening sentence reads "presidential system is a system of government where a head of government is also head of state and leads an executive branch", but the "Presidential systems with a prime minister" section contains examples to the contrary. (e.g. Azerbaijan's head of government (prime minister) is not the head of state.) Either those countries should be removed or the definition should be corrected.--209.6.192.134 (talk) 02:46, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

There is also the case of Namibia in, which, despite the President is both the head of state and government, according to Article 41 of the Constitution of the Republic of Namibia, all the government members are individually and collectively responsible to the legislature, thus making Namibia not to have a full and strict separation of powers and as well the ministry are being subject to parliamentary confidence. And I guess Mozambique has a similar case to this one. --B.Lameira (talk) 15:49, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Peru has the same case that of Namibia, President is both head of state and government, but the government members are responsible to the legislature according to the articles in Chapter VI of the Peruvian Constitution. --B.Lameira (talk) 19:02, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

"Citation needed"

"Cabinet ministers or executive departmental chiefs are not members of the legislature."

I don't know about presidential systems in general, but this is true of the US system in particular. Article 1, Section 6, Clause 2 of the US Constitution states that "no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office." --Khajidha (talk) 12:45, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Suriname, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Botswana and Kiribati

Can i add Suriname, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Botswana and Kiribati can i add this country to Presidential system because they have Presidents and Vice Presidents and the President is the head of both state and government.

Are you sure about this? The politics pages on Suriname, Nauru, Botswana and Kiribati do say that the President is head of state and government rolled into one, but they still describe these countries as parliamentary. The Marshall Islands page says the country is mixed parliamentary-presidential. Might be an edge case, idk. I can't tell what the deal with the Federated States of Micronesia is. Might be an edge case too. Damvile (talk) 11:30, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

These countries use a form of parliamentary system where the president is simultaneously a prime minister in all but name, and requires the confidence of parliament to stay in office.--Idlem (talk) 07:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Azerbaijan's map

Pls redact our map! Because Garabagh is not a part of any country. This is our region! Ordu Khan (talk) 09:10, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Please remove the comparison between a Presidential Republic and a Parliamentary one

186.188.238.66 (talk) 02:38, 14 February 2020 (UTC) This article is about the Presidential system of government (which is a type of republican government), but this page is not suited to make a comparison between such a system and a parliamentary one. I feel this article is discriminating against Presidential Republics, which is an insult to such a system. We need to find a solution to this, but I suggest removing any mention of the Parliamentary system, for now at least. This article is very bad and unprofessional... Presidential republics are not "the Congressional system"...

The list of presidential systems with a prime minister includes semi-presidential countries

Maurice Duverger defined semi-presidentialism as a system where: 1) The president is popularly elected; 2) The president has considerable power; 3) The president shares executives power with a prime minister responsible to the parliament.

Belarus and Kazakhstan use a semi-presidential system. The popularly-elected president is chairperson of the executive branch and possesses considerable discretionary power. The Cabinet's term in office depends on the parliament, meeting the third conditions. Furthermore, bills can be drafted by the president's Cabinet or the president directly, a common feature of semi-presidential countries (such as France), but antithetical of the "checks and balances" of a presidential system.

Would anyone object that I move Belarus and Kazakhstan to the page semi-presidential system? If any other countries belong there as well, let me know (I suspect it's the entire list of these countries with prime ministers, but this might be too radical).--Idlem (talk) 05:47, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Sure, just remember to also amend their corresponding articles, List of countries by system of government and preferably also the :File:Forms of government.svg (beware you'll likely have to do it through the talk page, as it's edit-protected). Fuse809 (contribs · email · talk · uploads) 06:58, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Peru?

Peru is really a presidential system? The parliament could sack the government, and some source call it semi-presidential (example).--MiguelMadeira (talk) 13:16, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

India

India do not have a Presidential system.So it is wise to remove it.

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Restructure

I've made several changes to restructure the article. In its previous state, the information was mostly sorted into a pros and cons style, lacked any sort of sourcing, and was generally disorganized. I've moved most of the content into the "Characteristics" section and sorted it by different aspects of the system to better comply with style guidelines. I've done what I can to source the information, and I've rewritten portions of the article to be more concise or better comply with sources. The only section I removed outright was "Impediments to leadership change," which was a large section that consisted of a back-and-forth tangent with original research. I've also added a history section and generously applied citation needed tags where necessary. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 07:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

The Philippine Constitution of 1899

"Following the pattern of other Spanish colonies, the Philippines established the first presidential system in Asia in 1898" is NOT accurate. The 1899 Malolos Constitution was Parliamentary in form rather than a "single executive system" as defined by the Wikipedia entry.

See Malolos Constitution and https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/constitutions/the-1899-malolos-constitution/ Obed.ello (talk) 03:37, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Sri Lanka is a semi-presidential republic

The Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka is a unitary semi-presidential republic, according to the Constitution. The executive power is vested in the government. The President is the head of state and is also head of government and head of the executive. But the President is not the sole executive and shares power with the Prime Minister. The President appoints the Prime Minister, who is a Member of Parliament that commands the confidence of the house. Ministers are appointed by the President on the advice of the Prime Minister. Hence the Prime Minister and the Ministers derive their powers from the Parliament, and are dually accountable to both the President and the Parliament, much like in the parliamentary system. Parliament has the power to remove the Prime Minister by a motion of no confidence. Hence, Sri Lanka is a semi-presidential republic In the Presidential system the government is independent of the legislature, but the power of the Government of Sri Lanka depends on Parliament, unlike in the presidential system.

https://www.parliament.lk/files/pdf/constitution.pdf The Sri Lanka (talk) 16:29, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

@The Sri Lanka: The constitution of Sri Lanka is a primary source. Using a primary source for this information is considered original research, and is not permitted by Wikipedia policy. If you have a reliable secondary source to support this, then the changes can be reconsidered. For now, Wikipedia:No original research requires your change to be reverted, but once you have a secondary source, then the article can be corrected. For now, it complies with Wikipedia:Verifiability, even if it isn't true. I know this seems frustrating, but we are all here to build an encyclopaedia, and this isn't an adversarial system. I will add a template to the entry though, to make it clear that this may not be correct, even though it is "verifiable". Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 23:25, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

I would like to thank you for raising this though, there are some major issues with sourcing on the topic of what system of government various countries use. I am actually inclined to belive that your version is correct here, but verifiability is one of the Five pillars of Wikipedia. Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 23:39, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Countries with limited recognition

There should be consensus regarding the inclusion of countries with limited recognition. It would be better to include only countries which are recognised by at least one UN member state. Please share your thoughts and ideas in this regard. The Sri Lanka (talk) 14:44, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Split Section Presidentialism metrics into Article Presidentialism metrics

HudecEmil (talk) 09:24, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

UK Monarch has significant power

In the UK, the monarch can dissolve or prorogue parliament, dismiss and appoint the prime minister and to veto any act passed by parliament. These powers have not been used recently, but the caption states that "this chart represent de jure systems of government, not the de facto degree of democracy" and these de jure powers border on absolute monarchy, so perhaps the UK should be coloured in as a semi-constitutional monarchy? Edward Jocob Philip Smith (talk) 19:16, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

While there is obviously overlap, the UK is much closer to a parliamentary democracy that a constitutional monarchy - the king’s powers are mostly notional. KJP1 (talk) 14:13, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Juxtaposed presidential system of government from cabinet system of government

Juxtaposed presidential system of government from cabinet system of government 102.91.103.129 (talk) 05:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Where's the criticism?

This article is clearly USA-biased, because there are no criticism of the presidential system. Iivarius (talk) 11:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

I do not entirely disagree with the statement that this article presents presdentialism in a fairly positive way, but I definitely wouldn't say that there isn't any criticsm of it. See for example Efficiencies and inefficiencies and Limited mechanisms of removal. LVDP01 (talk) 12:05, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Agreed with this comment. The article has some criticism, and I don't really think it's particularly pro-American. That said, the article doesn't really provide due weight to the most up-to-date research in comparative politics, and buries most of these criticisms deep in the article. Modern research tends to take a somewhat dim view of presidentialism, given the high rate of self-coups.

I've placed some material to this effect in the lead. @LVDP01 @Iivarius do either of you object to this being included there? – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 18:33, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Nope, it looks good to me. LVDP01 (talk) 18:53, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I object to it, particularly since it is in the lead. It gives undue weight to the opinions of a few scholars. I think the article is fine as it is, but if we are going to add criticism, it should be in the body of the article. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 19:10, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm under the impression that this isn't the opinions of a few scholars, it's the majority opinion in comparative politics, albeit with some caveats. Might be worth adding some more of those caveats ofc—I was a bit rushed so I just added the criticism by political scientists. – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 19:39, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I wonder if making a section called "scholarly analysis" would work, or if there is already an article comparing the two systems. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 20:43, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

It should, and I don't have any objections to a more in-depth discussion in the body. That said, I do think the general picture from comparative politics deserves mention in the lead. – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 01:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Honestly though, now that I've had time to look into a bit more, the citations that were in the lead to argue against the Presidential System don't provide convincing evidence that most experts believe Presidential systems to produce less stable democratic government; at most it says that some experts have identified issues, but to say that it's the scholarly consensus seems like WP:SYNTH. Also, the SagePub citation from this year doesn't provide a very strong argument that one system produces more corruption than the other, because it admits in its results that the correlation is weak, and also states "findings relating to the relationship between presidentialism and corruption are highly contingent on the consideration of the electoral system." --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 06:05, 8 December 2024 (UTC)