Talk:Prelest

St. Francis of Assisi Misquote

There is bias in this article against St. Francis of Assisi, discrediting him as a true saint. Specifically, the following: "At the end of his life, he said, "I am not aware of any sin I have committed which I have not redeemed through confession and repentance. His dying words were, 'I have fulfilled what I should have fulfilled."

In reality, St. Francis recited Psalm 141. It is recorded in his biography, The Life of St. Francis of Assisi by St. Bonaventure. This is just one of many places in this article that seem to be biased or misrepresented on account of the article being largely accredited to only a few authors who opined about others' faiths. I've included a link to the entire biography, although he specifically speaks on St. Francis' death in Chapter XIV. Thanks. Hhhhmmmm9999 (talk) 05:42, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Hhhhmmmm9999, setting aside for a moment whether this might be a false quotation, could you explain to us dense people how exactly this casts doubt on Francis' sainthood? It seems to me quite natural for any faithful Catholic to say that he is a sinner and has repented, and the martyrology is replete with stories of notorious sinners who left that life behind to pursue heroic virtue. So I don't see how the quote in isolation is problematic.

However, since it seems to come from a source or sources biased against the post-Schism Catholic saints, I would say that it is questionable at best and needs corroboration from accurate biographical sources, such as the one you have provided. Perhaps the Orthodox sources can be salvaged for some nugget of information, but not for this quotation. Elizium23 (talk) 05:53, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing at what is not clear for you. This article reflects Orthodox view in the first place. I changed the article so that it stresses more that this is an established Orthodox view among theologians. You can see new reference information that I have just added. Elizium23, I added extended quote from M.V. Lodyzhensky explaining that the quote of St. Francis means that he did not have the degree of humility that other Holy Fathers have. M.V. Lodyzhensky quotes another 2 sources and at least one of them, the one that I downloaded, is not against St. Francis, it calls him "Apostle of love" in the title. And that is not the only his delusion, you could read that book of A.I. Osipov (in English) for more details. There are similar problems with some recently glorified Orthodox elders (elder Porphyrios) and Prof. A.I. Osipov in his lectures clearly says that he only knows about this elder from the book. And from the book he was in delusion. Maybe the book was written by the person who is not familiar with basics of spiritual life, but it is important to state that the book should not be followed. Michael Demin (talk) 09:08, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

References

POV Issues

I saw in the previous talk page discussion a mention of the POV issues. Its pretty heavily written in an style of an orthodox theologian rather than a neutral thirdparty observing commonly held orthodox teachings. - AH (talk) 22:42, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Missing History

This article is written more like a religious web page. We are missing a history from the 1st thousand years of Christianity. 68.234.78.9 (talk) 00:11, 29 October 2023 (UTC)