Talk:Power and the Glory
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Comment
[edit]Nice work on this. Look forward to seeing more articles on Ochs' songs.--Idols of Mud (talk) 19:01, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Comment
[edit]Added the lyrics of the largely unknown fourth verse of the song - saw them in a posting by the indie musician Rolland B. Heiss, who adds the fourth verse to the song when he plays it.
However, his posting cites an email exchange with Phil Ochs' sister as his point of confirmation as to the credibility of their existence, which I'm not sure meets Wiki's standards for reference citations.
Can any of the more experienced senior Wiki editors shed some light on how to handle this type of citation problem? -- Rcsfca (talk) 17:36, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
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[edit]BTW, I don't know that Ochs was "one of the harshest critics of the American military and industrial establishment," as the first sentence in the "History" section relates. Surely many (if not millions) were as harsh or harsher. But his may well have been one of the most powerful voices critical of the American military and industrial establishment.
AThoughtSubmittedRespectfully (talk) 18:39, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Comment on additional verse
[edit]A slightly different version of the last verse can be heard on a YouTube video entitled "Phil Ochs - The Power and The Glory [with controversial verse] (1963)" and described as "a demo recording from the Broadside Tapes," at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gApvH1WDr_g. The recording is unmistakably Phil Ochs:
But this land is still troubled by men who have to hate
They twist away our freedom, and twist away our fate
Law is their weapon, treason is their cry.
You can stop them if you try.
I thought it might be worth adding these lyrics to the article (if someone more versed than I in Wikipedia editing wants to do it).
Speaking of which, why aren't all the lyrics of the song included in the article? It is a soaring, iconic song.
AThoughtSubmittedRespectfully (talk) 18:35, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
Disputed information, use of source
[edit]The article misuses a source to create several false impressions of the "Power and the Glory" and Phil Ochs:
- Ochs was a paranoic whose every other moment was spent looking for the government "in his soup". The "half of his adult life" referred to by the source were the years of Phil's mental illness, which came much later and had absolutely nothing to do with the song.
- In 1963, Ochs was considered "one of the harshest critics of the American military and industrial establishment". Since his first album wasn't released until the next year, that's hardly possible. Even his FBI report at the end of '63 (and there was one) made no such allusion, concluding only that Ochs was "a topical songwriter". But even later, as another editor points to above, Ochs was only one of many harsh critics, not one of the harshest.
- "'Power and the Glory'" is said to have contributed to Ochs' profound impact". No, the source says Ochs had a profound impact but says nothing about how the song contributed to his impact.
These assertions tend to color the entire article since they come at the end of the lede, at the start of the History, and in the conclusion. BTW, the source for all this is a single paragraph review of the song in a rock encyclopedia. I believe more research and a re-writing are called for. Allreet (talk) 15:25, 24 November 2024 (UTC)