Talk:Pottuvil massacre

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Pottuvil massacre took place in the area controlled by the STF no encounter took place and no independent probe has been ordered by the Sri Lankan government.The references given specifically chosen from non Tamil Papers The morning leader,Sri Lanka Truth and WPS.Further the muslims including Hakeem do not trust Rajapakse.An independent probe is the need of the hour.Harlowraman 17:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Harlowraman, I have to revert your edit. Please take a look at the video first. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{Walkie-talkie} 18:46, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The video could of be pertained under torture, or under government perjury, two things the Sri Lankan armed forces have done before. However, The video does express what is the latest opinion or expression of the individual in question, and thus it is a reliable source for his opinion, as you have stated. I don't believe Harlowraman is argueing that the individual hasn't changed his opinion on the events, but rather than his opinion is false. Maybe you should read the wiki article False_Flag. --Sharz 23:29, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Unchecked deletions

The following passages have been deleted immediately before my last edit. They have been commented as "removed uncited and biased statements", although they are cited. I am listing them here to avoid the impression that I am endorsing these deletions.

Text	Source	My comment
The Former Sri Lankan Minister and Sri Lanka Muslim Congress leader Rauff Hakeen who visited the area said the murders said the Sri Lankan STF was responsible as it took place in a area surrounded by several STF camps in an area declared safe by the Government.	themorningleader.lk	Actually he is quoted as saying "STF had to take responsibility in answering the queries of the Muslim population ..."
The Sri Lankan STF plans to file a case against Rauff Hakeem for raising questions against the STF and his security was scaled down.	lankatruth.com	not sure how reliable this source is. I'm always sceptical when some organization calls themselves "Truth"
The lone survivor also died due to the injuries on the 19 September 2006 raising questions whether the statement was voluntary or forced or was in a position to give a statement as he was in Sri Lankan army custody in the hospital.	worldproutassembly.org	page yields error message

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by SebastianHelm (talk • contribs) 04:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

• comment It was me who deleted these in the first place . I have found out that, most of the sources were misquoted and used with the intention of assaulting the STF. When you carefully read the given sources and the wording of the article, the true intention of the "editor" becomes quite obvious. LTTE kills people every where, and most of the their massacres and suicide bombings occurred in the government controlled ares and while admitting the fact the its the duty of the government to protect its its citizens, it should be noted that this task is not an easy one..Same goes in this incident, while STF is bound to safeguard the law and order of eastern citizens, you cant blame them for "random killings" done by the LTTE. And though Mr Hakeem, expressed his disappointment of the failure of STF to protect Muslims in this case,to my konwledge He never accused them for the killings, definitely not according to the given citations.

And about forcing the survivor to give evidence is may be a "fact" came out of the editors own head due to his immense personal dislike of STF.. I have never heard of such allegation and the dead link obviously don't serve any good here. overall, people should realise that, it really takes balls to criticize LTTE in the east.Certainly Not many do it in publicly there.So,we must give credit to Muslim people for risking their own lives in condemning LTTE publicly. --Iwazaki 18:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I would like to add the Totally_disputed tag to this article to get someone to clean up/fix this article. It's evidence that the LTTE did it comes from two anti-rebel websites. On WP:SLR asian tribune is stated as anti-rebel and "Should not be used to establish notability ". Also satp is again another such anti-rebel site. The video could as well have been a forced by the army . I have tried to find a RS about this matter but no luck. So I will tag it TOTALLY_disputed and hope someone can fix it up with RS and take off the tag. Thanks Watchdogb 05:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Also the SLMC leader has blamed said that the police cleared the bodies faster then usual which arose suspision. I watched the video and from it I can see that the survivor said that the only he knows that they were LTTE was because they were talking in good tamil. I am sorry but isn't Karnua also tamil ? he has also been believed to be working in the government controlled areas. It is then possible that they could have also done this. The video is not proper evidence that the LTTE did this. This is an awful act no matter who it was and it would be best if we can find proper evidence. Thanks Watchdogb 06:25, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

South Asia Terrorism Portal

The RSN discussion is regarding Punjab insurgency not Sri Lanka. Cossde (talk) 15:16, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Do not revert every other edit that I made with RS for one sentence that you want to reinstate. You keep doing this elsewhere too, and should desist from this disruptive behavior. That RSN discussion is about the whole source and a user pointed out the human rights violations by its president Kanwar Pal Singh Gill. By the way, you should familiarize yourself with WP:FALSEBALANCE: "Wikipedia policy does not state or imply that every minority view, fringe theory, or extraordinary claim needs to be presented along with commonly accepted mainstream scholarship as if they were of equal validity."--- Petextrodon (talk) 15:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@Petextrodon, you failed to establish SATP's connection with this RSN and Sri Lanka. Cossde (talk) 15:30, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

You failed to understand the discussion is about the reliability of the entire source as a whole and not its reliability pertaining to one country in specific. That's not how it works. Mein Kampf is still an unreliable source even if you want to cite it in non-Jewish context. --- Petextrodon (talk) 15:40, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

That’s your POV. Cossde (talk) 15:59, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

It's clearly a source with vested interests in these conflicts, and partisan against militant groups. It is far from a reliable source. It should be avoided completely in these topics, whether the Punjab insurgency or Sri Lankan civil war. Oz346 (talk) 20:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Again thats your POV, not an established fact. Cossde (talk) 04:41, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

https://www.satp.org/faculty/k-p-s-gill

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2007/india1007/3.htm

SATP is run by a notorious human rights violator KPS Gill, as demonstrated by several reliable sources (see HRW report above). It's not a mere POV. Oz346 (talk) 08:52, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

The above link stated that Gill died in 2017. Cossde (talk) 10:12, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

and the SATP you are trying to reference is pre 2017 when he was at the helm. Oz346 (talk) 12:05, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Then why did you say "SATP is run by a notorious human rights violator" ? Cossde (talk) 12:39, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

SATP was run by notorious human rights violator KPS Gill when this article was written. Oz346 (talk) 12:44, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

@Oz346, you are still failing to establish link here. These are conjunctures and personal opinions you are presenting here. Gill was an IPS officer who had served as a Director general of police, who has been awarded the Padma Shri by Government of India and non of the links shared by you so far claims that he has not been convicted of human rights violations. Cossde (talk) 13:07, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Human rights watch is a RS, the government of India isn't Oz346 (talk) 13:55, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Which has not directly accused Gill of anything. Cossde (talk) 13:59, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Any objective neutral person who reads that HRW report will see that Gill is not a reliable source or neutral observer on these matters. He is accused of leading a campaign against police accountability, and of smearing human rights activists as terrorists amongst other crimes. Oz346 (talk) 14:21, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

That's POV and we know from your edit history that you are not an "objective neutral person". Cossde (talk) 14:26, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

So what you're saying is if a HRW report accused a LTTE official of leading a campaign against accountability and of smearing human rights activists as criminals, you would still accept the organization that this official heads as a reliable source to be cited and consider any opinion questioning it as only POV? No, you would not, because you're the same person who has disputed the reliability of N. Malathy with spotless human rights record even as you defend government officials accused of human rights violations both here and on another article. It's evident the issue here is whether a source supports the Sinhalese side or not, which is wp:nationalist editing, and I will have to report you if you persist with this blatant double standards.--- Petextrodon (talk) 14:44, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

As usual you draw parallels with the LTTE, which mind you is a listed Terrorist organization, of which Malathy was an official of while her publication an document created by an agency established by the LTTE that ceases operations after the LTTE was defeated. Now that's the link I am asking here, which you Petextrodon and Oz346 have fail to establish here. Cossde (talk) 23:56, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Listing by criminal governments are irrelevant when the governments themselves stand accused of worse human rights violations. You still can't get around the fact you're defending the reliability of government officials accused of human rights violations while disputing the reliability of a volunteer with clean human rights record, only because the former support your viewpoint while the latter doesn't. --- Petextrodon (talk) 00:09, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

That's where you are wrong. I am not defending Gill, just failing to see the link. I am however comparing SATP with North East Secretariat on Human Rights. Or are you saying both are same? Cossde (talk) 03:14, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Definition of terrorism has no accepted consensus definition, because the states that use it are often also guilty of what is popularly defined as terrorism.

The Sri Lankan government forces have committed far more massacres of civilians than the LTTE could ever do (at a ratio well over 25 to 1), which would fit the definition of terrorism.

Your smearing of Malathy who was a civilian member of a Peace Secretariat and a non combatant, as well as New Zealand citizen with no crime to her name speaks volumes. N.Malathy did not go around murdering and raping like the security forces did. Trying to associate 'terrorism' with her is nothing but a smear. Oz346 (talk) 01:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

First point your POV. Second point she was an leader of the LTTE Peace Secretariat and being a New Zealand citizen doesn't make her a RS. Next you will be telling Adele Balasingham is an RS. Furthermore Malathy doesn't add credibility to the North East Secretariat on Human Rights, which was an LTTE agency to begin with. Cossde (talk) 03:18, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

NESOHR is a QS as the admin independently adjudicated, not a regular RS. Oz346 (talk) 12:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

That discussion was not completed and closed. Cossde (talk) 12:31, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

The admin asked you to engage there but you refuse to do so. --- Petextrodon (talk) 15:14, 27 February 2024 (UTC)