Talk:Portadown massacre

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Northern Ireland Low‑importance

	Northern Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Northern Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Northern IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject Northern IrelandTemplate:WikiProject Northern IrelandNorthern Ireland-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Christianity: Catholicism Low‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Catholic Church portal This article is supported by WikiProject Catholicism (assessed as Mid-importance).

Military history: British / European / Early Modern / Wars of the Three Kingdoms

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	British military history task force
	European military history task force
	Early Modern warfare task force (c. 1500 – c. 1800)
	Wars of the Three Kingdoms task force

Ireland Low‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	An image is requested for this article as its inclusion will substantially increase the significance of the article. Please remove the `image-needed` parameter once the image is added.

Untitled

Is the John Temple referred to in the last section - John Temple (politician)? If so, is the date for publication correct? He would have to have been 14 or younger when he wrote it. Yozzer66 (talk) 13:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, I may have got the first name wrong. I'll look it up when I get a chance to look at the Ulster 1641 book again. Inchiquin (talk) 05:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ghosts / Massacre Itself

==The Portadown Ghosts== The depositions record numerous reports of ghost sightings after the massacre: For example, a woman called Elizabeth Price claimed to have seen at the spot of the massacre a spirit in the shape of a woman: 'her eyes seemed to twinkle in her head and her skin as white as snow...divulged and then repeated the word ''Revenge, Revenge, Revenge'''. It continued to appear for some time and only disappeared when the settler force reached the town. The message within such stories is apparent. Over two hundred years later, in 1886, the historian Robert Dunlop argued that the presence of these ghost stories in the depositions meant that they were 'worthless' as evidence. <ref>Ulster 1641 pg 185</ref> Modern historians generally accept that there were a number of major atrocities in Ulster in 1641, but disregard the idea of a wholesale massacre of Protestants in the province.

Is this worth having in the article?

And can lots of people get over here to discuss the article, it keeps conflicting itself.--Theosony (talk) 11:14, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The general assumption that the majority of modern historians that the death of over 12,000 Protestants is somehow not a wholesale massacre is just someone's opinion - there is no such consensus among historians. HammerFilmFan (talk) 09:17, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments etc.

When I wrote the original article I was aware that it may be seen as controversial by some and so I attempted to make it as neutral as is possible. A number of subsequent edits may give a contrary impression: In general I do not like to challenge changes made to articles I started as it is not a good look. And I'd rather not engage in edit wars anyway.

That said, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that there was in fact a massacre at Portadown in 1641. Although British propaganda works of the 1640s inflated the number of civilians killed at the event, MacCuarta's Ulster 1641 book presents a pretty convincing argument that around 100 mostly English Protestants were killed at Portadown in 1641.

Inchiquin (talk) 11:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I definitely agree, from the evidence and sources you provided, I'd say there probably was a massacre there in Portadown, but at the moment, due to equal references, it seems as though it's a bit of a conspiracy/legend, but you created a brilliant article. I've bought one of the books on Amazon which I'll look through, the book itself seemed very interesting as well!--Theosony (talk) 15:47, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reverts

Brough87, the article contained an assertion that Ulster Protestant and Scottish forces also committed massacres in 1641-42. You asked that citations be provided. When they were you reverted the edit.

The mutually destructive conduct of the war in Ulster in 1641-42 on both sides is well documented. If you require further sources they can be provided. If you have further problems with the current wording please discuss here before reverting again. I'm sure we can come to agreement. Regards, Jdorney (talk) 18:00, 15 May 2013 (UTC).[reply]