Talk:Play with Fire (Hilary Duff song)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Play with Fire (Hilary Duff song) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Play with Fire (Hilary Duff song) was a Music good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 12, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

Answer

You're gonna have to start a new page for "Play With Fire" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.129.45.123 (talk • contribs) 21:00, 29 July 2006.

Tcatron565

In addition to reinserting unsourced material and piping wikilinks in violation of the style guidelines, Tcatron565 (talk · contribs) is restoring external links to the single's music video. This is against Wikipedia's copyright policies. Extraordinary Machine 15:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

May I also remind all editors in general to cite reliable sources when adding or changing content, and that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information (or AbsoluteTRL.net, for that matter). Reverting other editors without discussion or explanation is considered impolite and unproductive. Extraordinary Machine 18:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

UK release date

I really do hope the editor who keeps removing the single's (cited) UK release date will explain him/herself, because repeatedly and inexplicably removing content is considered vandalism. Extraordinary Machine 18:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Charts

Many of the charts on here are eith too small to be on Wikipedia, or unsourced wrongly. Please do not put any charts that is not an official country chart, iTunes chart, or MTV TRL chart. Personla charts are not permited. Tcatron565 00:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

iTunes charts and music video countdowns are not notable either, and in accordance with Wikipedia:WikiProject Music/Tables for charts they should be excluded. You've already been asked not to include TRL positions in "Charts" sections of articles. Extraordinary Machine 15:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Has this song been pulled, or did it just miserably fail? I'm assuming it's a combination of both, considering it was never really promoted. Will PWF be re-released later? SKS2K6 07:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DISNEY?

someone put that it was shown on disney channle....when was that? i havnt seen it yet.

You need to watch Disney Channel more often, you might see it during commercials.Atomic45 06:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is the cover real?

no physical single was released --190.45.225.149 08:04, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's the iTunes cover, I think. Extraordinary Machine 00:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Was the first single from the album

I have noticed at least two editors on this article, the With Love (song) article and the Dignity (album) article are under the mistaken impression that "Play with Fire" was some kind of promo-only release or "sneak peek" or "teaser" for the album, which makes "With Love" the "official" first single from the album. It isn't. Promotional singles do not have music videos premiered and put into rotation on major video programs, a release on download stores such as iTunes and a mainstream radio release; if it was a "teaser", it would have likely only been issued as a download, if that. "Play with Fire" was released to radio and video outlets in the U.S. in August 2006, after which the album was pushed back, the single hardly made any chart impact and "With Love" became the first single in most countries. Never at any point did "Play with Fire" somehow go from a widely released single to a promo/"teaser" release. Duff herself said on Total Request Live (August 15 2006) that "Play with Fire" was the first single from the album.

Odd, really; I thought we wouldn't again have to undo rewriting of Duff history after dealing with the overwhelming number of fans who seemed to think Santa Claus Lane isn't a Duff album. Extraordinary Machine 22:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA On Hold

Hey guys! I've reviewed your article. I amhappy overall with the article. So much so that I will pass it, but not until the lead is more detailed. It needs more info in there. I can't really elaborate on what else needs to be there, but it's too short a lead for an article of the length. Once that's done and I'm satisfied, the GA's all your's. I am rather impressed by the volume on information you've amassed and then organised very well. --linca ^linca 07:47, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've added to the lead a little bit. I can't think of anything else to add to it. -- Underneath-it-All 14:21, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still thinking it needs some more (likewise, Dignity seems to lack in the same way). Is this the first collaboration between her and will i am? Is it her first all-out dance single? Is there anything that defines or distinguishes this song from the sense of notability that her others don't bear the same distinction? If I see something to that effect added, it's more what I'm after. It's all that's really holding the article back from it, though. Once the lead is right, the article kind of finds more of its own sense of cohesion. It's like when you tidy your house, you start with your kitchen because once that's done, the rest of the house is less daunting (or is that just me?) --linca ^linca 14:51, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing's been done as far as I can see to amend the lead. If nothing's done in the next 24 hours, I will have to fail. Please adjust this and I'll pass it, if not, it'll fail. --linca ^linca 09:19, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA Fail

Because of no evident moves to improve this article in the ways suggested, I'm failing the GA nomination. I'd suggest some more editors skim over the article and do some minor basic copyediting and an improvement of the lead happens before a renimination. linca ^linca 00:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation for recent partial revert

Though many of the edits by Underneath-it-All (talk · contribs) have contributed significantly to the quality of this article, some of them are problematic. We can't claim that the song, video or the remixes received "positive reviews/reception from music critics" based on the opinions of one or two writers, as has been done here — and the Jane magazine writer is not even a music critic, but someone who interviewed Duff and made some comments about the video. Even if we found quotes from ten critics praising the song, I'd be hesitant about asserting that it had a "positive reception", because it could be that another ten we don't yet know about hated it. That's different from quoting/citing a reliable source as saying something along the lines of "Duff's critically acclaimed single 'Play with Fire'", because that reliable source has made the assertion about the song's reception, not us.

It should be made clear to the reader that the source for the background story for the recording of the song and the filming of the video is Duff herself, who isn't an impartial source not associated with the song — the story may not entirely be true. Shorter words and phrases should be used wherever possible, e.g. "said", not "commented", and "single", not "single release" — that a word or phrase is longer does not mean the sentence has anything more to say. I also disagree with the introduction of section headers to create short, single-paragraph sections, in a likely violation of Wikipedia:Guide to layout — it seems that every other song article has to have a section titled "Critical reception", another titled "Music video", another titled "Remixes" or "Alternate versions". Aiming to write articles of a consistently high quality is good, but this smacks of factory line article-writing to me. I don't want to belittle Underneath-it-All or single him/her out; I'm just explaining my edits because my reasoning for some of them might not be obvious. Thanks. Extraordinary Machine 22:39, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Play with Fire (Hilary Duff song)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Play with Fire (Hilary Duff song)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "MusicSquare":

From Fly (Hilary Duff song): "Hilary Duff - Fly". MusicSquare. Retrieved March 23 2007.
From With Love (Hilary Duff song): "Hilary Duff - With Love". MusicSquare. Retrieved April 3 2007.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 15:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]