Talk:Piano Sonata No. 9 (Beethoven)

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Piano Sonata No. 1 (Beethoven) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 13:15, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note the date of the foregoing notice. The discussion, now long closed, concerned whether to move the sonata articles to new titles incorporating opus numbers. The conclusion was not to do so. Drhoehl (talk) 23:26, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Description of 3rd movement

User:Lawrencegordon changed the description from "a lively rondo" to "in a lively sonata-rondo form". This makes no sense: it is not the "sonata rondo form" which is lively. The movement is described (in the existing references) as a "rondo"; so calling it a "lively rondo" is appropriate. User:Jasper Deng said: "apparently ABACABA is also considered "sonata rondo form"; but no -- the article is not the most readable, but A(xA)^n (i.e. alternations of A with any number of other themes, often in different keys) makes a rondo. The distinction of "sonata rondo form" is (as best I can see) copying the sonata form idea of themes AB' and in the recapitulation AB (i.e. the 2nd subject reverts from the dominant to the tonic). In an expanded analysis it might well be possible to describe this as sonata rondo form, but this is neither necessary, nor grammatically convenient for the current text. Imaginatorium (talk) 07:25, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've played this sonata and in my opinion, the fact that the B section returns in A major rather than E major to me doesn't seem to be a disqualification. Sonata rondo form would seem to be a subset of rondo form in general. Note that the final iteration of the A section, however, is not at all similar to the first, and to me really constitutes a part of the coda. I feel like an argument can be made either way.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:31, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It says on the Grade 8 Piano book and many other music books mentioning the Sonata No. 9 that the 3rd movement is in a lively sonata-rondo form.---lawrencegordon _{I am the best} 08:09, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be best to leave descriptions of form to the professionals. To that end, there is a detailed analysis of this movement from page 169 of this thesis - after https://www.google.com/ type url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiru8CjhbXSAhUaS2MKHYveAUIQFghLMAk&url=https%3A%2F%2Furresearch.rochester.edu%2FfileDownloadForInstitutionalItem.action%3FitemId%3D30377%26itemFileId%3D166517&usg=AFQjCNGmg-m57xC-SBTEWViuM4DZzUi6rQ. The author is quite comfortable with the "sonata rondo" label. Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced my copy of Charles Rosen's analysis. Syek88 (talk) 10:03, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]