Talk:Philippine dynasty

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Name

Curious. Is this the actual spelling of "Philippine" in this context? Or is it "Philipine"? I refer to the unclear distinction of whether "Philippine" refers to "belonging to the Philippines" or "belonging to the dynasty established by Phillip II of Spain". Or is there really no distinction? Ruben JC (Zeorymer) (talk) 11:28, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. Two relistings have not resulted in new arguments being presented. Favonian (talk) 12:06, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Philippine Dynasty → Portuguese House of Habsburg – Relisted for additional input. Vegaswikian (talk) 07:04, 7 February 2012 (UTC) All the other houses of Portuguese royalty are categorized under their house name and not their dynasty (House of Braganza and not Brigantine Dynasty, House of Aviz and not Joanine Dynasty, Portuguese House of Burgundy and not Afonsin Dynasty). It would be constistant. Thank you :)relisted--Mike Cline (talk) 15:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC) Cristiano Tomás (talk) 23:39, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support for consistency, and also because of confusion with the Philippines. Shrigley (talk) 01:29, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't even think of the Philippines, but you are correct! Cristiano Tomás (talk) 01:33, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (Undecided at present) @Shrigley: well, the Philippines country & the Philippine dynasty were named after the same guys ;). That said I see your point & Cristiano's. Nonetheless, "Philippine dynasty" is the common name in Portuguese sources (the sequence usually listed as Aviz dynasty, Philippine dynasty, Braganza dynasty). The term "Habsurgo" is not really used in Portuguese (nor is "Casa de" for that matter, the Portuguese subtitle should be "Dinastia Filipina') Which, of course, should not be the concern for a main article title in English wiki, but it is a point worth noting. Not sure how it turns up in English sources. Secondly, I am little discomforted by the "House" here anyway instead of "Dynasty", since there is no "Portuguese house" of the Hapsburgs. There's no distinct or derivative Hapsburg branch in Portugal. They're identically the same people as the Spanish house of Hapsburg. I'd much prefer a "Portuguese Hapsburg dynasty" (or some variation on that) as title.Walrasiad (talk) 18:43, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- The reason given is not an appropriate reason for a change. The question should be what term is used by English language historians for the dynasty. In England our royal dynasties are House of Tudor, House of Stuart, House of Hannover, and House of Windsor. This is applied to foreign dynasties, such as House of Welf. The question is how this should be applied to Portugal. I do not know. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Portuguese House of Habsburg

The term is completely original research. I can't find a single source using the term "Portuguese House of Habsburg", see this. One would ask if there ever was a Portuguese branch of the House of Habsburg. But no, there never was because Portugal was ruled by the main branch of the House of Habsburg aka the Spanish Habsburg. The family didn't have a different name when ruling Portugual and when ruling Spain. I want to note even the actual break away cadet line ruling in Austria was just refer to as House of Habsburg. Philippine Dynasty should be retained as a reference to the line of rulers and a term for the period of history which Portuguese historians used to fit into the whole royal dynastic scheme starting with the Borgonha dynasty, than Aviz, Philippine, And finally Braganza. No reference should be made to "Portuguese House of Habsburg" because it doesn't exist. There was never such a term and no separate Portuguese branch of the Habsburgs existed. It is merely trying to create something equivalent to Portuguese House of Burgundy. --The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 05:43, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

De-Spanishize

A lot of artcles with links to Portuguese House of Habsburg and relating to this period of history have been "de-Spanishize" and made more Portuguese. Usually it read Spanish Habsburg before it was changed or Spanish monarchs/king. Compare Marquis of Castelo Rodrigo before and after. The Philippine kings were Spanish first and claim to be Portuguese kings only as a second thought. It really messes up things to push forward their Portuguese identity at the exclusion of their role as Spanish oppressors. It is equivalent to calling the English kings, Irish kings and replacing any reference to the English for articles related to the history of the English domination of Ireland like calling Henry VIII's family the Irish House of Tudor. --The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 16:48, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]