Talk:Phil Harvey (band manager)/Archive 1

Archive 1

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• Paolo Petrocelli with Phil Harvey, creative director of Coldplay, and Davide Rossi,Grammy Award winner producer and string arranger.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:39, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Phil Harvey (manager)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien (talk · contribs) 16:28, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll have a review written for this article some time today. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 16:28, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Cherrell410 & GustavoCza: I've reviewed the article, and significant issues turned up. First, it appears that the article was not copyedited or organized before it was nominated; there are grammatical and structural errors throughout, and some of the content should be reordered. Second, it seems that the article does not closely follow the sources: this is bad at the best of times, but it's particularly a problem for a BLP. These are things that should always be checked before nominating, and either one of these issues is enough to say that the article still needs significant work before it's ready for GA. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:16, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Well-written

• is an English professional – Is "professional" the job title that he's described with by the sources?
• of handling alone an occupation – Needs rewording
• They have been friends since 13 years old and were on a band of soul and R&B covers – There are multiple grammatical errors in this sentence.
• He enrolled on a Classical Studies degree – How do you enroll "on" a degree?
• While in college, Harvey used to work at local nightclubs – This would mean that he had already stopped working for them by the time he had gotten to college.
• Info on his early life is disorganized. He's 13 and he's a sound engineer for "The Rockin' Honkies", and then suddenly he's enrolling and then dropping out of college to become Coldplay's manager. What year did he enroll in college? Did Coldplay already exist? Then in the next section we go back to him being in college, and then back to him being manager of Coldplay and dealing with "Camden promoters" with no indication of when these things happened or how they relate to each other.
• while the event is considered when Harvey began to manage the band – This does not make sense.
• eventually dropping out of university to dedicate himself to the role entirely – Didn't this already happen?
• They later wrote the song "Brothers & Sisters" – Who is "they"? Did Harvey write it with someone? Or was it written by the rest of the band without Harvey?
• Harvey carried out his role single-handedly until early 2001 – The article doesn't specify what he's actually doing for Coldplay at this point.
• He also affirmed the 21st Brit Awards was his lowest point – Is "affirmed" the right word here?
• he returned as the band's friend – This then lists a bunch of things that he did. Are these responsibilities different than what he did as manager?
• It's not clear what role he had for the albums in the discography section. Are these just albums released by Coldplay while he was the manager?
• It might be a good idea to move Wild & Croft (2018) out of further reading into its own sources section, even if it's the only thing there.

Verifiable with no original research

All sources appear generally reliable.

Spot checks:

• McCormick (2022) Y
• Roberts (2018): On the verge of starting a NHS training as a clinical psychologist is close paraphrasing of I was on the verge of starting my training with the NHS as a clinical psychologist
• McClain (2019): a Classical Studies degree at Trinity College, Oxford – Where does this source say he attended Trinity College as opposed to one of the other Oxford colleges?
• Owens (2016): The source says that Wilkinson stayed until 2006, and then Harvey came back. Also, where does it support and dedicate himself to personal endeavours?
• Hefferman (2008): His bandmates have described him as "the wise, handsome, frightening one who tells us what to do". – This is not the quote. An article cannot alter quotes and change who said them out of convenience.
• Twitter: The couple have three children – This confirms that Phil has three sons, but it's possible that he had at least one before meeting Yasmin, and it's possible that he has daughters that aren't mentioned.
• James (2009): named the organization's vice-president – Technically the source says "vice chair".

The spot checks turned up some issues. I suggest going through the article and making sure that the sources all confirm everything that they're supposed to confirm. A BLP especially should not have any discrepancies with the sources.

Broad in its coverage

The article does not give much attention to his actual role as manager or what he did for the band. Most of the article is about when he wasn't a manager, and a lot of the content about being manager is about how much he disliked it.

Neutral

No ideas are given undue weight. The article does not use subjective language.

Stable

No recent disputes.

Illustrated

The infobox image is Creative Commons. I'm not convinced as to whether the image from Christmas Lights is sufficiently essential that it justified non-free use.

is an English professional – fixed.

Roberts (2018): fixed.

McClain (2019): fixed.

Owens (2016): fixed. His personal endeavours were going college and volunteering at Upbeat.

Hefferman (2008): fixed.

Twitter: fan sources state his children were with Yasmin, but those can't be used as reference, so I put this tweet instead.

James (2009): fixed.

You have to guide me properly when it comes to rephrasing and grammar, English is not my first language. Also, here's the timeline of events since you seem confused:

• Harvey is a childhood friend of Chris, there's not much information on his early years.
• Coldplay was formed in 1997 at University College London, their first performances happened in January 1998.
• They were an unsigned band at that point, with no manager either, so they had to deal directly with Camden promoters.
• Harvey, who was studying at Trinity College at the time, suggested the Dingwalls gig, he says in the source it's when he began to manage Coldplay.
• He later dropped out his course at Trinity College to dedicate himself completely to management.
• After Coldplay finished recording A Rush of Blood to the Head (released in 2002), he left the band.
• During his time away he got a degree at University of Melbourne.
• He returned to the band in 2006 and is considered to help "fill the gaps", creative director is just a formalization.
• Creative director has been his sole official role from 2006 all the way to 2022, where he became manager again, so his role as manager is essentially five out of the last 25 years.

GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 01:11, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

As for his roles on each album, I own all their CDs and just checked:

• Parachutes – manager.
• A Rush of Blood to the Head – the liner notes just have him under "Coldplay".
• X&Y – "Wise words by Phil Harvey".
• Viva la Vida, Mylo Xyloto, Ghost Stories and A Head Full of Dreams – the liner notes just have him under "Coldplay".
• Everyday Life – "Managed by Dave Holmes. Co-piloted by Mandi Frost and Phil Harvey", then he is listed under "Coldplay" too.
• Music of the Spheres – the liner notes just have him under "Coldplay".

His role doesn't really encompass formalities, the band once said he is the person inside the band who gets an outside perspective and that basically help them creatively. Considering the credits I guess X&Y could be removed, but his absence shaped the album creatively as much as his presence on other albums. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 01:36, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Even if the examples that I listed are corrected, there's a broader issue in this article where it does not follow the sources. It's also important that an article be copy edited before it's submitted to GA. I'm going to close the review so these problems can be addressed. If help with copy editing is needed, the guild of copy editors has resources and editors that can help. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 16:55, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Phil Harvey (manager)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FuzzyMagma (talk · contribs) 17:54, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

I will review this FuzzyMagma (talk) 17:54, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

   see comments below

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   half of the references are not acceptable, see details below

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   did not check due to quick fail

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

   excessive use of quotation and additional large pink quotation!

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   did not check due to quick fail

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

   did not check due to quick fail

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

   did not check due to quick fail

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall: some of the comments from previous review was not address, e.g., "Twitter: The couple have three children" + the article is build on primary sources + there is also excessive use of quotation that does not serve any purpose = quick fail under 1 and 3

   Pass or Fail:

Comments

lead

• degree at the University of Melbourne during this period

Early life

• unnecessary quotes, e.g., the line-up "never overlapped"

Management

• excessive quotes that mount to copyvio
• "manager again, but now assisted by", remove now

Creative direction

• excessive unnecessary quotes that mount to copyvio, e.g., He would "pop his head in the studio to give his opinion" occasionally,

Personal life

• "the manager travelled around South America", the manager is Harvey right? then write Harvey

Discography

• source?

See also

• remove, irrelevant per MOS:SEEALSO, A "See also" section is a useful way to organize internal links to related or comparable articles and build the web. this not this section

References

General

• excessive use of primary sources, as in interviews (ref 1 and 7), Coldplay Official Website (7 refs) and Coldplay twitter (twice)
• ref. 23 and 25 need to be reformatted
• Ref. 24 is a form, fails WP:RS
• Ref. 25 is a tweet with a screenshot for a primary source, fails RS
• Ref 26 is blog, fails RS

Spot checks

• Ref 1, failed
• Ref 20, failed
• Ref 21, failed
• Ref 22, failed
• Ref 23a, failed
• Ref 23b, failed
• Ref 23c, failed
• Ref 28, failed

Further reading

External links

• Per WP:LINKSTOAVOID, please remove irrelevant external links and templates as described below:

• Coldplay Official Website
• Coldplay on AllMusic
• template "Grammy Award for Record of the Year",

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Phil Harvey (manager)/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: An anonymous username, not my real name (talk · contribs) 01:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello there! I admire your perseverance in getting this article passed. Third time's the charm, as they say. I'll review it when I have time. An anonymous username, not my real name 01:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I cannot over-stress how much I hate doing this to you for a third time. However, many of the issues noted by the last review have not been addressed, there is some strange and confusing wording, and the article failed multiple of the few spot checks I did. All of this said (especially the first part), it is most certainly eligible for quick-failing. Here are some quick bullets:

• He graduated in psychology at the University of Melbourne — The grammar here is confusing. One does not graduate "in" a field of study nor does one graduate "at" an institution.
• they are the most successful group of the 21st century. — They are the most commercially successful band according to the source; the word commercially should not be excluded.
• Even something as simple as his birthday is wrong; the cited source says he was born in 1979.
• The cited source for ref 5 makes no mention of the Lyon house.
• Something mentioned in the last review that has not been addressed: he is called simply "the manager" multiple times.
• being also known for his interactions — "Being also" reads rather awkwardly.
• There is still no source for the discography, as mentioned in the last review.
• The last review advised removing the see also section per MOS:SEEALSO, which hasn't been done.
• Not all of the external links advised to be removed have been removed.

This list could probably be more comprehensive, but given that the article is already eligible for quick-failing, that seems like beating a dead horse. Again, I hate doing this to you. On the bright side, the use of quotations seems much more reasonable than in previous versions and the article passed my copyvio check. Don't get discouraged. An anonymous username, not my real name 23:47, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• He graduated in psychology at the University of Melbourne — Solved.
• they are the most successful group of the 21st century. — Solved.
• born in 1979. — I ended up overlooking this since the remaining information is correct, I will find another source as soon as possible.
• Lyon house — The source says "Attended Sherborne School (Lyon) 1990-1995". The name of the house is between parenthesis for all students on the list.
• he is called simply "the manager" multiple times. — Solved.
• being also known for his interactions — Solved.
• There is still no source for the discography, as mentioned in the last review. — He is listed as a band member in all albums except Parachutes and X&Y, which still included his name in other ways. This was addressed on the Creative Direction section already.
• The last review advised removing the see also section per MOS:SEEALSO, which hasn't been done. — Solved.
• Not all of the external links advised to be removed have been removed. — Solved.

Can you please elaborate further on "strange and confusing wording", I already rewrote this article three times already. You can't give such a vague feedback to a non-native speaker. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 03:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I would like to have clarification on the spot checks as well, I already opened on reference by one and one archive by one to see if the pages were working. And it wasn't only in my laptop, I also tested this on other devices. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 04:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I already failed the article, so there is no point in this, but I can try to clarify. You said "[I] can't give such a vague feedback to a non-native speaker", but according to WP:QF, an article can be immediately failed without further review if "it has issues noted in a previous GA review that still have not been adequately addressed, as determined by a reviewer who has not previously reviewed the article". I am not required to provide a comprehensive overview in this case, so giving feedback at all was a courtesy. You also do not mention being a non-native speaker on your userpage (I inferred it from the sources you used, but perhaps I overestimated your proficiency in English, in which case my apologies). The particular wording issues that especially stood out to me I already listed. As for the spot checks, that just means that the source does not match the information in the article. Again, I already listed the examples of this that I noticed. That should conclude this discussion. An anonymous username, not my real name 10:48, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

You listed some examples but not all of them are correct, the Lyon house source clearly states "Attended Sherborne School (Lyon) 1990-1995". His discography credits are addressed on the article's body already too. I even included a footnote to talk about his role on the albums he wasn't listed as a band member. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 12:35, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Well in those two cases, yes, it appears I missed some details. My apologies. In the case of the discography I simply was looking at the last GAR which said there was no citation for discography, so I overlooked the other parts of the article where citations were given. An anonymous username, not my real name 13:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Birth year aside I'm assuming all the issues were addressed now then? I'm not stopping at my third attempt. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 16:23, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it would appear everything has now been fixed, although for the reasons I mentioned, I did not do a full review, so I may have missed some other things. An anonymous username, not my real name 17:02, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

speculation on net worth

@GustavoCza as currently written, that sentence is a violation of our WP:BLP policies. The source attached to the sentence is not good, the sentence is grammatically bad, and I do not understand for the life of me why you want to keep it--it's literally a statement about a lack of information. Please stop reverting this edit. WP:BLP says "All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source." I'm challenging this material, and there's just no reason to have it. Also, your edit summary is literally WP:original research as you are making your own conclusions about his wealth based on his ability to buy a house. Alyo (chat·edits) 05:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Dirt! was part of the PMC, the same company from Rolling Stone and Variety. But do what you want with this article, I give up. I tried to contribute but everyone thinks my edits are horrible. I don't know why I ever thought I was good for something to begin with. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 05:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

@GustavoCza I don't think your edits are horrible--I've never interacted with you before and I have no issue with your edits! :) But I hope that you're willing to listen to other editors who are trying to help you. I see you've been trying to get this article to GA status, and I'm happy to point out places where the language is a little stilted and help you polish, since you're clearly passionate and have access to the sources. Alyo (chat·edits) 05:21, 22 December 2023 (UTC)