Talk:Pfeffernüsse

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Untitled

Another version of this is pepernoten (Dutch)... at least I think it's the same thing. They're not typically rolled in sugar, though, and bear a strong visual resemblance to dog crunchies.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.123.194.74 (talk • contribs) 10:02, December 13, 2006‎

No they don't. What you mean are Kruitnoten. Rex 21:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd love to know what you think pfeffernusse or pepernoten are. What I have known all my life as peppernuts are dark brown cookies about an inch in diameter that are crunchy/hard and contain anise flavoring. When I do a Google image search for "peppernuts" I get hundreds of pictures that exactly match my experience. The Kruitnoten seems to be simply a different name for the same thing, or else it is similar but without the anise. Am I wrong? Is there anyone who has had them coated in powdered sugar or anything even remotely similar to that photo in the article?--Exaybachay (talk) 02:53, 10 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Danish pebbernøder are not rolled in sugar and does not have a "signature white color". They are always brown. Carewolf 11:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Therefore, I think a new image is needed, because Dutch pepernoten are most certainly always brown, and Danish pebbnoder as well as mentioned above. Then I don't really know what's being portrayed in the supplied image. 77.251.184.198 (talk) 02:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've made four different recipes, none of which involved powdered sugar. They were definitely called pfeffernusse, not pepernoten, pebbnoder, or anything else. My mother tells me that Pennsylvania Dutch Mennonites make the powdered-sugar-coated version, not sure if this is universally true. ScionofGrace 10:24, 10 September 2008

I would totally agree that the German Pfeffernuesse are pretty much the same thing as Kruidnoten. I just got Kruidnoten from a Dutch store which are very much what I know from home as Pfeffernuesse, where home is Bavaria. So I went ahead and googled "Pfeffernuesse Rezept" and found recipes from different regions in Germany, which covered everything from what I would call "small Lebkuchen" to what is exactly a Kruidnoot. So I would guess that a German Pfeffernuss is a small round sweet bake that contains a selection or all of the typical Christmas spices and is rather dry, where dry means anything from slightly chewy to full on crispy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.193.80.208 (talk) 14:32, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No Pepper and no Choclate. And eiweissgebaeck

Pfeffernuesse usually don't contain black pepper. The are called "pfeffer" because in the midle age people refered to most exotic spices as "pfeffer" The name of the pfeffernuesse, and other dishes containing the name pfeffer, is still kept because of tradition. They usually contain stuff like nutmag or cardamom, wich both have been called "pfeffer" in the old times. Also they are rarely found in that choclate variation. Usually they are still tradionally made without choclate. And the word Eiweissgebäck doesn't reffer to pfeffernuesse themselfs. Eiweissgebäck reffers to anything made from a dough that is mainly based on egg whites. There are several different things wich are eiweissgebäck. Whil pfeffernuesse are actually one of them, its still not a name for them. My references are not only the German Wikipedia and all Recipe Books i own. I'm also a trained cheff, like my father is and my grandmother was. I also started being trained as a pâtissier, but stopped after 2 years --95.88.233.19 (talk) 11:35, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Without anise and cardamom, how would you recognize a pfeffernuss?--Wetman (talk) 02:49, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Combination with Article "Pepernoot"

I propose that this article and Pepernoot be combined. They are clearly different spellings of the same thing. There should also be clarification about whether Kruidnoten is the same, and if not, in what ways they differ. --Exaybachay (talk) 03:02, 10 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Cookies or biscuits?

In the article, pfeffernüsse are described both as cookies and biscuits. Please pick one term and stick to it! JDZeff (talk) 07:29, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

When the article was created in 2006 it used "cookie", which stuck for several months, so per MOS:RETAIN I've switched all uses to that. A case could also be made that since the only English-language connection made in the article is to American Mennonites, that would be the applicable regional term. Since the sources for that connection include "blogspot" and "wordpress" a lot, I'm not confident that would hold up to closer inspection but it's better than nothing. Grayfell (talk) 08:29, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Singular form

Is it a good idea to mention the singular form in the beginning of the article? That could be helpful for non-German speakers, such as myself. I thought of doing something like: "Pfeffernüsse (singular Pfeffernuss) are tiny spice cookies...". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guissoares (talk • contribs) 14:37, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, Guissoares, though I'd prefer to work it into the second sentence that covers names in other languages, even if that means reiterating the term. Also, the non-English words should be italicised. I'll go do that now. —Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (12:33 Sun 21, AEST) 02:33, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

✅ Done (diff). Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (13:16 Sun 21, AEST) 03:16, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Commercial pfeffernüsse

In Australia, there are a couple of brands of commercial products sold in supermarkets as "pfeffernüsse". They are round, domed, and coated with a thin white sugar or royal glaze. Size is approx. 4 cm 1.5" diameter and 1–2 cm high. The texture is soft and chewy with distinct bread-like air holes. As far as I remember, their availability predates the arrival of a certain German supermarket chain. I don’t have sources, this is all personal observation. They taste of anise and other spices that I can’t place (which is what I came to our article to find out, surprised that cardamom is prominent and not ginger).

Our article on Dutch pepernoot / pepernoten (Special:Permalink/935060874) mentions that there are two different types of German pfeffernüsse, though the current Pfeffernüsse article doesn't go into this and doesn’t have comparative images.

Interested to hear how this compares to other countries, and how the commercial products relate to the traditional styles. Hopefully also someone can find sources to broaden the article's coverage.

Please ping me in replies, Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (12:23 Sun 21, AEST) 02:23, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dangit, I went to the two major supermarket chains and they aren't selling the non-Aldi brand any more, at least in small local stores. I think that I remember it used to come in a red packet. Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (22:00 Tue 23, AEST) 12:00, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Pelagic: Different types of German pfeffernüsse are mentioned at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfeffernuss, with a general North/South divide, and another type in East (Saxony). If you do not read German, then Google translate does a decent enough, though imperfect, job; as always. The pfeffernüsse that you describe seem more like the Moppen type, which is typically available in the North during Advent. Commercial pfeffernüsse are available in other nations; including Germany, Austria & USA. Doing some Google for combinations of "supermarket, Australia, pfeffernüsse/pfeffernusse", you may be thinking of the brands Heidi's, Lambertz or Weiss. The last of these is definitely available internationally. Hope this helps. - Ryk72 ^talk 13:29, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Ryk72! I found that Heidi's is still listed online for at least one of the major Australian retailers, although it wasn't stocked in my local store. I haven’t seen the non-moppen type here. (Mmm, thinking about hunting down specialty bakeries for some tasting, but German and Dutch cuisine not common in Australia. I might have to wait until Christmas.)

I've added a section on variations, paraphrased from machine translation of the German article. Web search on moppen is challenging, I get pages of Dutch jokes! "Moppen pfeffernusse" is more successful, I have a G-books scan from 19th century that says "the large pfeffernuesse are called moppen or moffen" ... but I'll make another talk section for that. Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (13:12 Sat 27, AEST) 03:12, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Pelagic: There's a little bit more about regional varieties here, including information on a Hessen type. The site also suggests that there is a national Pfeffernüsse day in the USA. I'd probably want some confirmation in another source before including information on the latter. - Ryk72 ^talk 02:53, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good find! That's the most detailed treatment of the national day that I’ve seen. Giese's section on regional varieties appears to be based on the corresponding one in de-wp. I’ve left Hesse/Offenbach out of this article for now, just because I don’t have a description beyond "light and soft". The part about being served at state functions is interesting, but more likely to be challenged for a citation(?). Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (13:47 Sat 27, AEST) 03:47, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Huh?

This article states: "Leavening agents such as baking powder, baking soda, potassium carbonate, or ammonium carbonate get the sticky and dense consistency of the original mixture." What exactly is meant here? As written, it doesn't make too much sense.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:801:4280:A710:C410:6387:ACDC:B0CA (talk) 20:23, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Moppen

This book [1] (Vollständiges handbuch der neuesten erdbeschreibung, Volume 9 by Adam Christian Gaspari, p. 720) says something like

Berühmt sind die Kastrierter Pfefferkuchen (movon die feinster Sorte Peiligmaker und die großen Pfeffernüsse Moppen oder Moffen heißen), welche weit und breit ausgesürt werken.

Though I had some difficulty as a non-German-speaker interpreting a few of the letters in scanned fraktur script.

Machine translation gives

Famous are the castrated gingerbreads (movon the finest variety Peiligmaker and the large pepper nuts are called Moppen or Moffen), which are filled out far and wide.

Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (13:25 Sat 27, AEST) 03:25, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the article I’ve quoted just a short phrase for which I’m confident in the transcription and translation ("die großen Pfeffernüsse Moppen oder Moffen heißen"). Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (13:59 Sat 27, AEST) 03:59, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Doh, I’m blind. The Google SERP includes text „Berühmt sind die Mastrichter Pfefferkuchen (wovon die feinste Sorte Heiligmaker und die großen Pfeffernüsse Moppen oder Mosfen heißen), welche weit und breit ausgeführt werden.” = “The masters are famous for gingerbreads (of which the finest variety is Heiligmaker and the large pepper nuts are called mops or mosses), which are carried out far and wide.” Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (14:12 Sat 27, AEST) 04:12, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

“Maastricht … weit verschickte, Pfeffernüsse (Moppen) liefern” (‘Maastricht ... deliver far away, pepper nuts (mops)’) [2] Pelagic ( messages ) Z – (14:44 Sat 27, AEST) 04:44, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Pelagic If the Moppen are from Maastricht, shouldn't they be listed in the Dutch section rather than the German section? Nakonana (talk) 17:40, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]