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Talk:Peter Fleming (writer)

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Travels

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I've started adding information about the journeys. Though to some extent these are duplicated in articles about the books, it seem strange not to have these, the best-known parts of his life, in the main text of his biography. Steve Roberts 16:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Brazilian Adventure

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The expedition leader who caused all the problems was not Holman, whom Fleming is complimentary about. The problems were caused by 'Major Pingle', an American adventurer. Fleming says of him: 'He is a tall thin man of about forty, with a ragged moustache and phenomenally small ears. There is something of the camel in his gait ... His appearance is in no sense attractive. ... It would have surprised me if after your first meeting you had not concluded that beneath that rugged exterior there beat a heart of gold; if only because Major Pingle himself had so repeatedly implied that this was so.'

I see surnames are provided for some of the people on the expedition. These are not mentioned in the book but I presume they are correct. Acampbell70 (talk) 19:13, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]


From reading a book written by one Robert Churchyard titled Wilderness of Fools and published in 1936, I get the idea that Pingle and Holman are the same person. Fleming's artifice was to credit Holman's useful work to (the real) Holman and his unpleasantness to (the fictitious) Pingle. I also get the idea that Mr. Churchyard himself comes out in Fleming's book as both "Bob" and "our Organizer." Jahutter (talk) 02:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pingle was fictional, added as a composite character for the tribulations they had to go through with Brazilians who were stealing, lying or being on their general way, without going to the trouble of condemning a whole country, Fleming was careful about that. It also added some drama to the book.
In the book's original manuscript, which is held in the archives of the University of Birmingham, there is a note from Fleming to his editor stating that Major Pingle was indeed a fictional character. The note reads: "Major Pingle is, of course, fictitious. A crude caricature of all that is worst in the Brazilian officialdom. I would hate it to be thought that I had been so ill-mannered as to portray a real person."
So, basically, while some of the issues faced by Fleming took place, they could be attributed to the Organizer, to Holman, to the other men and guides, to the Brazilian authorities and others. Most of the book is a real, honest day by day account of the adventure, but Pingle was added for drama and simplicity. 2804:1B3:A802:BC57:B46F:A514:8E64:75B (talk) 22:40, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The book written by Robert Churchward (not Churchyard) reveals the other members of the expedition to be Fleming, Pettiward, Priestly, Noel Skeffington-Smyth, Walter Blunt-Mackenzie and Arthur Humphries (Churchward's father's chauffeur, who was taken along more as a mechanic than an explorer: Churchward's father also sailed with the expedition to Brazil). The leader in Brazil was Captain John G. Holman (aka Major George Lewy Pingle). Andrew G. Doe (talk) 18:25, 29 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've just re-read Churchward's Wilderness Of Fools for the first time in over a decade and from his descriptions of Holman's actions, it's crystal clear that he was indeed "Major Pingle"... and remember, this book was written (if not actually published) before Brazilian Adventure, and Churchward evidently had no idea of Fleming's ruse.Andrew G. Doe (talk) 20:56, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Fleming Award

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There is no reference to the Peter Fleming Award, granted annually by the Royal Geographical Society. -- Bill Overal

There is now :) - FrancisTyers · 00:21, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Family

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The article states that his daughter Lucy Fleming "was first married in 1971 to Joseph "Joe" Laycock (d. 1980),... by whom she had several children. The marriage was dissolved in the early 1980s, after a series of family tragedies. She then married the actor and writer Simon Williams." However, her Wikipedia biography page state that her first husband drowned along with her daughter, Flora, in 1980.Desi&dede (talk) 09:35, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Removed pending reference

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  • although during his lifetime he was generally reputed to be the more intelligent of the two.
  • Today, Peter Fleming is known more for the James Bond connection than for his own work.

Red River Valley

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Removed this: ==See also==

  • Red River Valley, film based on his book 1961 Bayonets to Lhasa: The First Full Account of the British Invasion of Tibet in 1904

(* Red River Valley, a 1997 Chinese dramatization of the events of the British expedition to Tibet.) 

Evidence that Fleming was used as a source would be needed.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 21:30, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cause of death?

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He died, fairly young, on a shooting expedition in Argyll. Does this mean a shooting accident? 86.183.206.77 (talk) 12:42, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No - he suffered a heart attack.Andrew G. Doe (talk) 15:54, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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