Talk:Pepperoni

Confusing?

Does pepperoni refer to the meat or to the vegetable? I've heard people using the word differently. --88.64.182.19 (talk) 10:34, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

in English it's a meat. in other languages, who cares, this is wiki.riteme.site00:00, 2 December 2017 (UTC)2601:40C:8100:768:E44C:7361:7ABC:1398 (talk)

in the us you mean Mad420 (talk) 23:49, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Differences between pepperoni and italian salami/sausage varieties

According to the article:

The main differences are that pepperoni has a finer grain (akin to spiceless salami from Milan), is usually softer, and is produced with the use of an artificial casing (Italian salami is produced using natural gut for casing and are made of pure pork).

I believe the smokiness, and the beef-pork mixture, are actually much bigger differences from soppressata than the grain, the hardness, and the casing, as they're directly responsible for the typical pepperoni taste. However, I don't have a citation for that. The current statement isn't cited either, but fixing it without a cite would just be replacing someone else's assertion with mine, and, even if I'm right, that's not how Wikipedia works, right?

The already-linked NYT article does have an Oakland sausage-maker who cites the "smokiness, beef content, and fine grind" as what makes pepperoni unique, but he's hardly authoritative—and he immediately goes on to suggest that this means pepperoni comes from the Midwest (it doesn't) and is influenced by Thüringer Rosters (highly improbable) because there are no smoked sausages anywhere in Italy (there are plenty—and surely he's at least heard of Bologna-style mortadella?) So, it would be disingenuous to use that to cite my opinion. --157.131.246.136 (talk) 05:36, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

More on history

Both the name "pepperoni" and similar recipes are cited to well before 1919, while the exactly modern food product only goes back to the late 1970s, so the history section (mostly based on a NYT article that's mostly based on interviews with hipster sausage makers in Oakland and Brooklyn) is just wrong.

However, I'm having a hard time finding good citations.

Part of the problem is that there's a single article that appears in multiple variations (many of them clearly edited for marketing purposes) that's in multiple places. One copy (which seems to be free of those marketing additions) is at Mental Itch, but I have no idea if that's a reliable source for Wikipedia's standards. There's no author on the article, and no citations, but it's pretty clear that most of it is based on a book called "New Haven Apizza" by Colin Calvin (a book I can't find any mention of anywhere else) and on interviews with Ezzo Sausage (one of the major industrial suppliers to pizzerias) and Domino's (one of the major pizza delivery chains).

Anyway, hopefully someone who knows more about either Wikipedia's citation standards, or about tracking down original sources, can help. --157.131.246.136 (talk) 06:11, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I'd like to know your source on the claim that pepperoni only dates to the 1970s. Not only does that not jibe with the sources, it doesn't jibe with any know facts that I've ever seen, nor with the use of the term to mean a spicy salami that easily predates that. I'm rather skeptical of that claim. oknazevad (talk) 22:36, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

I didn't say that pepperoni only dates to the 1970s. Read my very first sentence: both the name and the basic idea go back to well before 1919.

What _does_ date to the 1970s is, as I said, "the exact modern food product". Prior to the 70s, "pepperoni" was a general term for a wide variety of spicy salamis. After the 70s, it was a specific term for a specific, standardized product. Most pre-70s pepperonis and pepperoni-like salamis were not dried after fermenting; modern pepperoni is. Pre-70s pepperoni was something you bought at a local butcher or sausage maker; post-70s, it's an industrial product, which you can buy (commercial or consumer) pre-sliced, intended for use as a pizza topping. --157.131.246.136 (talk) 17:41, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Can it be said that the increase in industrial-scale production has created a certain expectation of what pepperoni is supposed to be among he public? Sure, but that's true about any mass-produced foodstuff, including other salamis. But the definition of pepperoni as a type of chili-pepper-spiced, smoked salami usually made with both pork and beef is exactly what those artisanal butchers you dismiss as "hipster sausage makers" produce.

With that said, some more through coverage of how such homogenization of pepperoni expectations has affected the product might be appropriate, as long as it's not too much. The phenomenon isn't unique to pepperoni, after all. oknazevad (talk) 22:20, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

@Oknazevad: Is there any history that provides insight into its claim that it is from the US? I don't deny this since there is nothing specifically like it in Italy, as the history section points out, but it seems that that's all it really does - make comparisons, but really offers nothing about its origins in the US. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 17:29, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

From the second ref in the article itself, The New York Times one: "Purely an Italian-American creation, like chicken Parmesan,” said John Mariani, a food writer and historian who has just published a book with the modest title: “How Italian Food Conquered the World.” oknazevad (talk) 21:19, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I've expanded a bit on the history. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:43, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Picture

fyi: "packaged pepperoni" picture shows a german made, polish sold salami that's flavoured with chili (in german: pepperoni) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mad420 (talk • contribs) 23:44, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Smoked?

How come the word "smoked" and "ham" are not in this article? Isn't pepperoni smoked like ham and bacon? I thought pepperoni was made from ham but I could be wrong. WorldQuestioneer (talk) 20:17, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

It's made from pork and beef, typically, but they're formed into sausages with the spices before they're smoked. The pork is not salt cured first, either, nor is it necessarily made from the hind leg, which are the defining features of ham, so to say pepperoni is made with ham is incorrect. The article does include that it is smoky, so I don't see where it omits that.

That said, I do think a bit more about the the production method could be included. oknazevad (talk) 00:47, 26 September 2020 (UTC)