Talk:Peibio Clafrog

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

Wales Low‑importance

	Wales portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Rewriting

I have rewritten the article, removing references to the Early British Kingdoms website, using print resources instead. Alekjds ^talk 05:01, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is terrific work, but there are still a few problems. First and foremost, some of the wording is far too close to the sources, making it plagiarism; it needs to be rewritten. Second, some of the book sources are still not reliable. Walker's Hereford Guide is from 1808 and makes some dubious claims, such as putting a firm date on the arrival of the Saxons. And the writings of Iolo Morganwg can't be used to make any claim of fact. I'll get on this as soon as possible.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've always been horrible at rewriting sources—thanks for your help with this. If I have some extra time today, I will do some more digging in regards to dates; they seem hard to come by for this guy. Alekjds ^talk 17:15, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Cúchullain's comments. I appreciate the effort you have made here, Alekjds, but there are still issues which need adressing. Anything by Iolo is suspect. A lot is pure invention but sometimes he made use of genuine sources, usually amended to suit his vision; if the material from the Iolo Mss. is in fact taken from the Liber Landavensis then that can and should be sourced directly (I'll check when I get time, having copies of both). Also concur with Cúchullain on antiquated sources, the ready availabilty of which is one of the mixed blessings of the internet age; no reputable book on the subject would use them as a primary source as they often contain errors and even if they are otherwise sound scholarship has moved on, to say the least. Enaidmawr (talk) 23:23, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The text added from the Iolo mss. is a footnote by the editor, Iolo's son. Taliesin Williams was not a forger like his father but only the first part quoted refers directly to Liber Landavensis. The rest is speculation (who's?). The dates are not reliable and as Taliesin doesn't give his source(s) there is no reliable source for their use here. As for Liber Landavensis, it's in medieval Latin and not always too easy to read so I'll check what Wendy Davies has to say. Enaidmawr (talk) 23:39, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]