Talk:Paul Reuter

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I really don't see why you guys have such hang-ups about mentioning his being Jewish or not. Fact is, he was born Jewish, was raised in that faith as his father was a Rabbi. Then he converted to Christianity - exactly a week before he married a Christian woman. Might that not have been the decisive motive for his conversion? I would think it highly likely. Facts are facts, mention them as they are, not as you would wish them to be. Period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.200.30 (talk) 18:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

rankly, this page is a mess. Needs a major rewrite. 194.125.41.40 01:09, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

i suggest taking the phrase "jewish" out of the article as Reuter was not very religious, as far as i know. It should at least be moved further down as a side note and not as an atribute of nationality!

Agree - I am not aware of any biographies making a point of his religion. He and his family were buried in consecrated ground so I very much doubt that he was a practising Jew at death! Mention of his religion as part of the body of the article, or in those various categories, is at best irrelevant or worst misleading, unless someone can produce good evidence. Ephebi 18:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are probably not aware that Judaism is the religion, and being born to a Jewish family makes you Jewish because its an ethnicity, nor matter how much the religion is part of your life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.5.4.40 (talk) 20:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your point about ethnicity, but I also refer you to Who is a Jew? - "the Jewish identity shares some of the characteristics of an ethnicity and a religion, the definitions of a Jew may vary". According to that article Reuter would not count as Jewish for the purposes of the current Israeli citizenship laws. Reuter was a Christian convert and was buried in Christian consecrated ground (and a very fine brown granite monument it is too). In other words, he had turned his back on Judaism. In fact he converted to Christianity almost immediately he set foot in England, so would that make him a member of both [German Jews] and [British Christians] !? WP policies are that we do not add categories that are non-defining. So until we can show evidence that his father's ethnicity or religion defined some part of his adult life or business then the [--- Jews] category is inappropriate. Ephebi (talk) 09:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have got an idea, if you say he converted after immigrating to the UK, than it means that as a German he was Jewish, but as a Brit he wasn't, meaning i think that if you can source it(that he converted to christianity) than you should list him out of "British Jews" , but he should remain in "German Jews".By the way, the same story was more or less with Karl Marx, meaning being born German-Jewish, but then living in the UK as a christian convert. User:81.5.4.40

thanks for the reference to Marx's article - it certainly illustrates the problem in classification. Marx's discussion page is also quite interesting, if lengthy & somewhat heated at times. It raises some criteria to consider for categorising which I think worthy of highlighting:

1 whether his being of Jewish origin (which may be, but is not necessarily the same thing as, an ethnic Jew) is relevant to the article.

2 Whether we have verifiable sources that indicate he identified himself as a Jew

3 Whether he was "German" (Kassel-Hesse was annexed by Prussia in 1866, the Deutsches Reich wasn't founded until 1871)

(We could also pose the same questions 1 & 2 about his Christianity) I don't think we can easily say "yes" to any of the above, and so I would say we should drop all references to his religious background in this case, and just leave the descriptin in the body of the article's text. However, I also note that, regardless, Marx is currently classified - amongst others - under: German-English people | German Jews | Jewish atheists (!) | Converts from Judaism to Christianitywhile the debate rages. Ephebi (talk) 16:41, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well by their ethnicity they might have both been Jewish, but nevermind about that. It seems that Marx's article is semi protected, so their is nothing we can do about it, but in my opinion some of the categories you have mentioned he should be listed in them and in some not. Anyway back to Paul Reuter, the references certianly do suggest that at first he was Jewish by both ethnicity and religion and in the UK he converted, so what categories are relevant? in my opinion at least the "German-Jews" one,the German ones(about your comments above, we call "German" to all people from the german countries in all times, even before Otto von Bismarck and the first reich in 1871 ), and of course the British ones. "British-Jews"? if on this one you say we should remove it, i might agree with you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.230.172.154 (talk) 15:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If editing Marx while he's semi-protected causes you a problem then you'll need to persuade someone to take up your position from the discussion or get a login (which IME is quite painless and useful for the "watchlist" feature) While I have sympathy with your viewpoint on ethnicity, I'm afraid I can't help but think of the Duke of Wellington's unfortunate turn of phrase about his nationality! I'm not acquainted with Reuter's church-going in England - or whether his devotion was just a convenience to suit his family or social circles, either in England or in Hesse. Though having gone through a few WP:CFD debates, a key policy issue is that a category should be "defining". No source I've seen suggests that religion or his Jewish parentage had defined his adult life in England. Was his earlier life defined by his Jewish upbringing, and did this influence his achievements? Ephebi (talk) 16:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well his upbringing(religous one) must have had something on his personal life, mybe not so much about his work, but that is probably something not even worth mentioning in the article. The truth is that i don't think religion has played that much of a role in his life, so i don't think he answers the propper definition of a Jew(by religion of course) or a Christian, but i promise to keep surfing for all kind of different sources and see where it lead's us(you may also try to find some). Now its not that i'm so concerned about marx, but just trying to give you a typicall example for the matter.User:80.230.172.154 —Preceding comment was added at 17:45, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity

Comment moved from Talk:Paul Reuter/Comments; it wouyld never have been seen there. Astronaut (talk) 01:02, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity of one being Jewish may not be important to ones character, but, it is apparent that its important to people of interest. Kennedy's are Catholic, and that had a bearing on the Presidential elections in 1960. Yes, you can take away most clues of ones life, but, it always comes back to ones religion, ethnicity, and political nature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.19.230.218 (talk) 22:52, 20 July 2009

He was a Jew. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.232.43.100 (talk) 21:04, 4 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Line of Baron de Reuter

Who was the 2nd Baron de Reuter? - 130.194.76.27 (talk) 06:34, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For all I know, there was none. As George, one of Paul Reuter's sons, became the 3rd Baron de Reuter directly, the title of the 2nd seems to have been discounted. The reason for this I can't tell, but maybe it's got something to do with Paul Reuter's barony having initially been conferred on him in Germany. But I don't know, it's a guess really. Zero Thrust (talk) 17:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello!

It seems to me, there is a mistake. German nobility titles were not (and are not) numbered, and all sons of any German baron (Freiherr) are holders of the same title (Freiherr). -- Worobiew (talk) 13:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]