Talk:Paul Kurtz

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Institute for Science and Human Values was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 07 November 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Paul Kurtz. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Jesus

Paragraph removed from the article:

Though Paul Kurtz claims to support skepticism and reason, he seriously believes that the "historical" Jesus has already, or will be found soon. See such theologians as Gerd Luedemann and John Allegro. Kurtz is an easy mark for religious and ancient historical quackery disguised as skepticism, even though Kurtz is ardently antireligious himself.

As is, this appears to be nothing but a POV attack on Kurtz. -- The Anome 18:15, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

books

I removed a couple of books not written by Kurtz from the list, since a list of every tome touching on topics Kurtz has discussed would stretch from here to the next server and back. - DavidWBrooks 18:29, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

“Humanism”

Removed from article:

"According to some accounts Kurtz was largely responsible for the secularization of Humanism. Before Kurtz embraced the term "Secular Humanism," which was coined by fundementalist Christians in the 1980s, Humanism was more widely percieved as a religion that did not include the supernatural. Kurtz used the publicity generated by fundementalist preachers to grow the membership of the Council of Secular Humanism, and remove the religious aspects found in the original Humanist movement.

A former co-president of International Humanist and Ethical Union, Kurtz became disillusioned with its policies and leadership. His dream project is the Center for Inquiry International, which he hopes will become a center of secular study."

The lead in sentance is acceptable but is little more than a set up to cheerlead that POV. As other Wikipedia articles show, use of the term "Secular Humanism" was clearly in use and understood during the 1960s and 1970s. The categorization of "Humanism" as a religion, or religious belief, was highly debated before the 1980s and still is a topic of intense debate. There is no indication in this writing to distinguish what these so-called "religious aspects" might have been nor what constitutes the "original Humanist movement". This also lacked any internal wiki linking as would be appropriate for such terms as "Humanist" and the "Center for Inquiry".

It is also worth noting the contradiction between the assertions of this article and the notably dogmatic & evangelical stance of the Center for Inquiry.

Vassyana 00:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of simply stripping information out of this entry I have addressed the concerns of Vassyana:

-"Secular Humanism" was not coined by fundementalist, just widely popularized.

-The religious aspects of humanism are easily seen in the original Manifesto and Charles and Clara Potter's book Humanism: A New Religion.

-The "original Humanist movement" would clearly the based on the orignal Manifesto, as opposed to the Manifesto II which Kurtz contributed to.

Since this is a intensly debated subject it most definitely should be included here as Kurtz is a major player in the shift in the direction of humanism. To ignore it or simply delete it out significantly lessens the value of this article and obscures Kurtz's contributions.

Finally to delete information from an entry because it "lacked any internal wiki linking" is a lame excuse for promoting a specific POV.

2ct7 18:22, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is likely to be the stumbling block: "According to some accounts Kurtz was largely responsible for the secularization of Humanism." ... because there's no support in the article for a very sweeping ("largely responsible") statement. If you want it to stay, you need to put in some scaffolding: What accounts? Can you link to any? What exactly did Kurtz do - give speeches? Rewrite manifestos? Harangue on street corners? Didn't anybody else do anything, too - if so, how come we say he's the prime driver? - DavidWBrooks 19:38, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Largely responsible for the secularization of Humanism" seems pretty self evident - as the Humanist Manifesto article states the "second manifesto was written in 1973 by Paul Kurtz and Edwin H. Wilson" and "its rejection of religion" was a major departure from the original Manifesto which "referred to humanism as a religious movement." In addition that article states "the Council for Secular Humanism, founded by Paul Kurtz, which is typically more secular in its outlook than the AHA..." Are there more definitive events that illustrate the shift to secular than the Manifesto II and the formation of the Council for Secular Humanism? If you know of any let me know because I cannot find any.

Since this article already mentions Kurtz's connection to both of these points it would seem redundant to repeat them in this paragraph.

A little "scafolding" might make this smoother, but that's a justification for an edit of the wording not a complete excise of the paragraph. 2ct7 00:21, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Planetary Ethics?

could this be mentioned somewhere in the article

Planetary Ethics

--voodoom 02:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge from Eupraxsophy

I have suggested that the contents of the article Eupraxsophy be merged here. The word is a neologism coined by Kurtz, and is not in commmon currency even among the secular humanists that it is supposed to help categorize. Though I started the article, I believe it ought to be merged with the biographical article for this reason. Rohirok 15:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Un-merged the Eupraxsophy since numerous other pages about Humanism and secular humanism refer to the term. While I understand your thinking that since it was/is a neologism coined by Kurtz and is not widely used, that relevant information about the term, what it means, etc. is buried within the Kurtz article and thus not a useful or relevant to the many pages that refer to the term itself. Lestatdelc 22:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with Rohirok. The Eupraxsophy article is a stub that only makes sense within this article. —Cesar Tort 06:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No merge two separate issues. The other will be expanded. FGT2 08:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Lestatdelc, and it is more widely used than you think among the academic sect in which it is used. Thorne N. Melcher 00:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Having eupraxsophy redirect to a long biography would be very confusing, and the word *is* used in academia. I'm going to remove the merge tags, unless there are strong objections. Gsnixon 22:56, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No objection from me. Bubba73 (talk), 23:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eupraxsophy has been discussed in papers widely. Allthough new, it is a widely used word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.197.54.136 (talk) 18:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Like which ones? --Adoniscik^{(t, c)} 00:17, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please unmerge Eupraxsophy from this biography. I was reading about Eudaemonia and was really confused about the improper redirection to a person, instead of the idea I was interested in & clicked on. Ace Frahm (talk) 09:08, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resignations.

I added text about Kurtz’s resignations. I’m not sure how to properly add a source citation. My source is as follows: Free Inquiry Magazine: August / September 2010 - Volume 30 Number 5 http://secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=fi&page=kurtz_resigns —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dwp13 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is Dr Kurtz of Jewish ancestry?

I've just tagged the "List of Jewish scientists and philosophers" in the See Also section with a citation needed because I cannot find a source of it on the internet. Information on this subject, much appreciated. 201.137.78.105 (talk) 03:41, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find Kurtz in that list, although it fragments into so many sub-pages I may have missed it. Since the main article doesn't mention religion and doesn't support the contention, I have removed both of those See Also lists. If any relious background or ancestry is deemed important enoug to mention there, it should be in his article first. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 12:07, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you David. I think it's important in the biographical section to mention ancestry. Hope that in the future another editor finds a reliable source and clarifies this question. Just curious, since I’m not an American and am not familiar with Jewish or purely Anglo-Saxon last names. I only remember that last name, Kurtz, in the Apocalypse Now movie, played by Marlon Brando. Is it a gentile name? --Cesar Tort 18:17, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's a name, that's all that I know. It doesn't come with a label. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 22:02, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Labeling someone who has helped me so much with his work would never enter my mind. I just had the impression that Wikipedia articles mention the family background of notable people, whether Christian, Jewish or Muslim. These sort of info always helps. Cheers. --Cesar Tort 23:43, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kurtz has passed away

According to a post by American Atheists, Mr Kurtz passed away today. Needless to say the details have not been released yet but I am concerned about the many edits to his page today. I am quite confused by all of the changes and partial-reversions. I appreciate the editors who have reverted the page to the state it was in before the death was announced and I think we should discuss here and find reliable third-party sources before re-adding any information. Allecher (talk) 02:31, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

thank you for fixing this page everyone. I have been very concerned that the page would be vandalized with a deathbed conversion or something. I am concerned with all the edits today. They must have close personal knowledge to have been making edits waaaay before the death was announced. I want to keep the phrase "good faith" in mind,. Sgerbic (talk) 03:15, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Now that I have the time to sit and think this through I'm going to heavily edit the section on ISHV. My reasoning is that the editor who left this section seems to think it should have major prominence on his page. Yes, he did found the group in 2010, but other than a website I don't see its noteworthiness. It does not have its own WP page, it does not have secondary sources in the media. I can only find its own website and a twitter account on a search. Paul Kurtz will be remembered for the founding of the other noteworthy organizations which have already existed for 30+ years, many of which he was at the helm.

If someone wants to add these articles back in with a discussion here, then I'm very open to listen. In the mean time I'm removing it. Also the someone editing under the name of tonivanpelt http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User:Tonivanpelt/sandbox who created the section on ISHV left this statement which very much concerns me (it is uncited also) "Upon being forced out of the Center for Inquiry, by the board and management for power and control of the vast network and holdings he had envisioned, developed, managed and maintained for decades, he launched the Institute for Science and Human Values as a separate entity."Sgerbic (talk) 18:16, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Toni Van Pelt was head of the Center for Inquiry's D.C. Office of Public Policy. When Kurtz left and took with him the Center for Inquiry's largest regular contributor ($600K/year or so), she was one of the people who were laid off in the aftermath. She went to work for Kurtz again at the ISHV. Lippard (talk) 14:30, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In that case then Toni Van Pelt should not edit this page to avoid conflict of interest. Allecher (talk) 15:20, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've left a COI notice on that user's page. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 22:37, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are some inaccurate and/or misleading statements on this Paul Kurtz talk page that need to be addresses and corrected, that is if this page is anywhere near dedicated to accuracy and objectivity. User Lippard asserts above that "Kurtz left and took with him the Center for Inquiry's largest regular contributor ($600K/year or so)." NOT SO. While it is true that the donation may have been reduced during the year of major turmoil between Kurtz and his board of directors (2010), Kurtz urged this donor - a longtime colleague - to continue supporting CFI, and indeed this donor continues to contribute a large amount annually to CFI to this very day.

As to the Institute for Science and Human Values: User Susan Gerbic makes a misleading assertion above: "other than a website I don't see its noteworthiness. It does not have its own WP page, it does not have secondary sources in the media. I can only find its own website and a twitter account on a search."

First of all, ISHV does have secondary sources in the media. Just do a Google search from mid 2010 to the present. The reality is that the founding of the Institute for Science and Human Values (ISHV) was an important moment in the late career of Paul Kurtz. It was a collaborative project of Kurtz, psychologist Vince Parr, and secular lobbyist Toni Van Pelt.. (See http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Institute_for_Science_and_Human_Values# ) Its existence is not intended to slight any of his other important accomplishments. National media stories in the New York Times, Huffington Post, Buffalo News, and Politics Daily (all in 2010) covered its creation. ISHV is committed to the furtherance of Kurtz's life long vision of ethical, naturalistic, and planetary humanism as articulated in his many published books and articles. Its existence was noted in virtually all of the national and worldwide news stories reporting on Kurtz's death. The organization is a professional non-profit 501(c)3 with a full board of directors and a full time paid staff. It has office space in Amherst, New York and Tampa, Florida. It also has affiliates around the world ( http://www.instituteforscienceandhumanvalues.net/Global%20affiliates.htm ).

Moreover, the claim that ISHV is "just a Website" is highly inaccurate. Among the organization's activities: It sponsors yearly conferences and symposia, oversees the Paul Kurtz Yearly Lecture Series at the University at Buffalo, publishes a journal with a distinguished editorial board (The Human Prospect) that is in the process of being professionally indexed. It maintains a Website with new content added regularly. Paid staffers of the Institute publish articles and books, give public lectures, travel internationally to promote humanism (most recently at UNESCO in Paris and the humanist summer school in Moscow),and take part in debates on public policy issues. ISHV has an experienced professional lobbyist on staff and is an active member of several public policy coalitions ( http://www.instituteforscienceandhumanvalues.net/coalition%20partners.htm ) . Additionally, the Institute has published at least two position papers since its inception. It also engages in research: ( http://www.instituteforscienceandhumanvalues.net/research.htm ) The founding document of ISHV, the "Neo-Humanist Statement of Secular Values and Principles," is a published document that has been endorsed by well over 100 leading scientists, philosophers, and authors from around the world.(Septemeber 2010: "The Institute for Science and Human Values offers this powerful and compelling Neo-Humanist Statement of Secular Principles and Values as a reasonable approach to living a vibrant, meaningful, and morally grounded life; one that celebrates the differences that highlight our uniqueness while emphasizing that we are all members of the planetary community" http://www.amazon.com/Neo-humanist-Statement-Secular-Principles-Values/dp/1616143541/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351709506&sr=8-1&keywords=Neo+Humanist+statement .) It was Dr. Kurtz's wishes that the Institute expand its activities and continue well into the future. (Additionally, the family announced in the official obituary that any donations given in his honor be directed to ISHV.) (User NateBupp)

Home town

Does anyone else see the hometown "a" in the upper right with the basic information of Kurtz? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.240.27.173 (talk) 01:12, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the extra "a" in the infobox. It must have been an artifact from all the speed editing over the last few days. Allecher (talk) 15:23, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Comments

There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:04, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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