Talk:Patriotism/Archives/2017

This is an archive of past discussions about Patriotism. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

"Patriotism" vs "Nationalism"

Unless someone can show some external research WP:NOR on documented differences between patriotism and nationalism, i.e. has the concept patriotism been used without this also being nationalism, is there any concrete difference in practice between these two? etc., then most of this article is redundant, since there is already a good article on nationalism. Boud 12:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

True. As far as I know, they're synonyms. The one difference may be that Nationalism in history is the term to describe a country's fight for independence. - The monkeyhate 18:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

They are synonym, but not identical. Nationalism is often (not always) conceived as a right-wing ideology, which is often accompanied by racism, xenophobia, etc. Patriotism is more of a popular "feeling", or if you will it designs the feeling that most people have for their country. Patriotism refers to the fatherland, nationalism to the nation-state. Both are not identical. Consider also chauvinism, which is close to patriotism. Chauvinism & patriotism may be used to describe events outside of the strict political sphere: the recent 2006 FIFA World Cup or the Olympic Games are classic events in which most people become patriotic, although a lot of them may be opposed to nationalism. I understand Boud's concerns, and argument that the concept "patriotism" has almost often been used with "nationalism": this is probably because he is opposed to both, and thus doesn't see any real difference between them. I feel sympathy for his views, but this shouldn't make us forget the distinction. Tazmaniacs 13:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

All you're saying is that nationalism is often a pejorative term; patriotism is not. That is not enough of a difference to support a separate article. —Fluous (talk) 21:05, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

In specifying Patriotism vs. Nationalism: Patriotism is Love of and devotion to one's country. Nationalism is Love of and devotion to one's State or government. The essential difference is between Country and Nations. Country is defined as: The territory of a nation or state; its land; and the people of a nation or state; populace. Nations are different in that they are not necessarily confined to land or people, but rather to a culture or ideal of government. The other major difference between nationalism and patriotism is an idea of superiority. Nationalism is an intellectual belief that a particular state to be superior to another, vs. Patriotism is a feeling which doesn't distinguish between governments as much as the people and its land. As Mark Twain once said “Loyalty to the country always, loyalty to the government when it deserves it”. See the Orwell essay I just added if anyone wants to work on this. --LC 01:34, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

This does not make sense. Patriotism and nationalism are the same thing. Switch around the terms in your explanation and they'll both apply. —Fluous (talk) 21:05, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Patriotism is love of / support for your country. Nationalism is (or originally meant) the belief that each "nation" should have its own state, and by extention, the struggle for independence against foreign domination. It has come to mean or imply racial/national/ethnic supremicist attitudes (which wasn't the intention of the original movement, but could be argued is an "ideological bug"). Nationalists tend to be patriots, but patriots are not necessarily nationalists (in either sense).62.172.108.24 (talk) 18:10, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

As I understand it Nationnalism is the defence/love of the 'Nation' (regadless of recognition by other entities) justified through any means(e.g. History, culture, ethnicity). Patriotism is a specific form of nationnalism, justified by the Ethos of the nation and it's culture.SKG1110 (talk) 19:09, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

There is a difference, and historically, and even today, there can be a big difference. Although they're often used interchangeable, patriotism is love of a homeland, i.e. a geographic area, whereas nationalism is love of a people.

Nationalism is often more problematic, because a people can be highly exclusionary; historically for example, there were countries with nationals, who had the vote, and a whole bunch of slaves, who lived in the same country, who did not vote, and were certainly not considered part of that nation, even if they shared a homeland. Nevertheless patriotism can be pretty bad also. But that is the difference it's geographic versus a group of people.GliderMaven (talk) 22:44, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Patriotism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 10:54, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Patriotism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 10:54, 27 August 2015 (UTC)